[00:00:01]
701, I'LL CALL A MEETING OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE ADVISORY BOARD TO ORDER AND THE ROLL CALL,
[CALL TO ORDER]
PLEASE. ALL RIGHT, FRANK WATANABE, IT'LL BE TAKING ROLE TONIGHT.SO FIRST, THOMAS CUM PRESIDENT PAUL EDWARDS AND MARIE FRAZIER.
REBECCA BEAR, THEY BEAR T BEAR T BEAR.
SORRY. THAT'S OKAY. TERRY MUELLER DOES IT.
AND THEN DAVID JONES PRESENT ALL COUNTED.
THANK YOU. ADOPTION OF THE MINUTES FROM THE JUNE 28TH, 2021 MEETING, I'M MOVED TO APPROVE
[ADOPTION OF MINUTES]
THE JUNE 20.RIGHT, EIGHT, TWENTY TWENTY ONE MINUTES.
WELL, THE FIRST AND A SECOND, THE SECOND, DAVID JONES.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, I ANY OPPOSED.
OK, WHAT DO WE DO? DO WE? LET'S JUST TABLE UNTIL WE HAVE.
ABOUT THE OTHER MINUTES FOR THE CANCELED MEETING AND THEN THE MEETING, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE QUORUM. SO.
I THINK WE JUST YOU SHOULD JUST HAVE A COVER SHEET I NEED TO SIGN FOR FOR THE FOR THE RECORD. AND.
OK, AND THEN WE'LL MOVE ALONG TO PUBLIC COMMENT.
[PUBLIC COMMENTS: (Non-agenda items only)]
MR. BATTEN, I SEE YOU'RE HERE.SHE DID SEND THOSE. YES, SHE SAID SHE SENT THOSE.
YEAH. SHE SAID JUST WAS JULY SOON.
HE SENT US THE COVER SHEET, RIGHT? YOUR EMAIL, YOU HAVE IT. YEAH, I HAVE IT HERE IN FRONT OF ME.
AHEAD, MR. BEN GILBERT IN 586 OCEAN SPRAY STREET.
I HAVE ONE QUESTION ALONG MITTON ROAD AND GAYNOR.
ON AND I'M SORRY, MINTON ROAD AND DEGROOTE.
I SEE WHY COMM CABLES BEING PUT IN UNDERGROUND OR CABLE WAVES BEING PUT IN THE GROUND.
JUST CURIOUS AS TO WHAT THOSE WERE AND WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO BE FOR, AS I SEE QUITE A BIT. I DID FIND OUT ON THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE WAS UNDER THE BUDGET FOR THE 2022 BUDGET FOR THE CITY OF PALM BAY.
THEY PUT THE ADDITIONAL SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS INTO THE ROAD MAINTENANCE FUND.
I'M KIND OF LOOKING AT MY INFRASTRUCTURE ADVISORY BOARD TO KEEP ADVISING THEM TO MAKE SEE IF THEY CAN COME UP WITH A DEDICATED FUNDING SOURCE OR ANNUAL FUNDING SOURCE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO HAVE THE THE FUNDS ALWAYS, ALWAYS AVAILABLE FOR ROAD MAINTENANCE.
SO WE DON'T END UP IN THE SAME PREDICAMENT WE ENDED UP IN NOW.
AND WITH THAT BEING SAID, THAT'S IT.
THANK YOU, GUYS. AND JUST SAY FROM PAST EXPERIENCE THAT WACOM IS A SUBCONTRACTOR AND THEY'RE PROBABLY INSTALLING SOME TYPE OF FIBER OPTIC CABLE AS THEIR MAIN MAIN JOB.
FRANK, YOU KNOW ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT IT? THANK YOU AGAIN, FRANK WATANABE, THE CITY ENGINEER, YOU ARE 100 PERCENT CORRECT.
WIRED.COM: IS A UNDERGROUND CABLE COMPANY INSTALLING FIBER OPTIC CABLE.
THEY'RE INSTALLING FIBER CABLE ON MOST OF OUR MAJOR ARTERIALS.
I THINK THERE ARE A COMBINATION OF THE MAJOR CARRIERS AT&T, VERIZON, T-MOBILE.
I KNOW WE HAVE THEM UNDER A RIGHT AWAY CONTRACTS AND THEY'RE INSTALLING THESE UNDERGROUND CONTRACTS ON, I THINK RIGHT NOW A MILTON ROAD AND SOME ON EMERSON.
AND SO THEY'RE ALL DIRECTIONAL BOARDS AND THEY'RE ALL CONDUITS.
THE ORANGE IS THE CONDUIT, AND ORANGE TYPICALLY MEANS IT'S A MULTIPLE OF FIBER OPTIC CABLE. BUT THERE ARE SOME BABCOCK BROWN, BABCOCK, THERE ARE A LOT OF THE STREETS, AND JUST TO LET YOU KNOW ALSO, FPL HAS CHIMED IN AND ALSO THEY WANT TO DO SOME UNDERGROUNDING OF THEIR LINES, SO THEY WANT TO TAKE THE LIONS OFF THE POLES AND PUT THEM UNDERGROUND.
A LOT OF US JUST FOR THE HURRICANE AND FOR FUTURE WEATHER IMPROVING, THEY'RE DOING IT TO A LOT OF CITIES WHERE THEY'RE NOT.
THEY CALL YOU THESE CALL IT HARDENING THE POLES INSTEAD.
NOW THEY'RE DROPPING THEM IN THE GROUND, WHICH IS THE BEST THING YOU WANT TO DO.
THAT'S A RECORD. ANY NEW CONSTRUCTION, THAT'S A REQUIREMENT THAT THEY'RE UNDERGROUND INSIDE ANY POD OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? CORRECT. TYPICALLY, FOR MOST OF THE RESIDENTIAL AND MOST OF THE SUBDIVISIONS LIKE THE PDS AND ANY COMMERCIALS, MAINLY THE COMMERCIALS, THEY LIKE TO HAVE THEM UNDERGROUND AGAIN JUST FOR HURRICANES AND WEATHER, AND THEY'RE MORE PROTECTED WHEN THEY'RE UNDERGROUND.
YOU HAVE TRANSFORMERS, BUT THERE'S A HIGHER COST ASSOCIATED WITH THAT AS WELL.
SO. IF TWO OTHER PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE, EITHER ONE OF YOU WANT TO SPEAK FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. BEING NONE.
JUST. NOT USED TO HAVING PEOPLE JUST COME AND SIT IN THE AUDIENCE, SO.
UH, PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR INTRODUCTION AND HIS OVERALL OVERVIEW, LIKE YOU SAID, YOU
[BUSINESS (Part 1 of 2)]
DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT TONIGHT, I THINK WOULD BE NEXT MEETING.OK. THAT TAKES CARE OF ALL THE BUSINESS ON THE AGENDA.
DID ANY OF THE BOARD HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? PRESENTATION OR NO? OH.
[00:05:01]
OH, YES. I'M SORRY, DID YOU WANT? THAT WAS MY QUESTION.[Additional Item ]
CAN WE MOVE TO APPROVE THE TWO MINUTES THE JULY CANCELED AND THE AUGUST? NO FORM. SURE.SO FOR THE MINUTES IN JULY AND THE NO QUORUM MEETING IN AUGUST, I NEED A MOTION, A MOTION TO APPROVE ALL THOSE IN FAVOR.
I MR., AND I DIDN'T MEAN TO SKIP YOUR PRESENTATION.
I THOUGHT YOU WERE. PRESENTATIONS ACTUALLY BE TONIGHT IS GOING TO BE NATALIE IS GOING TO GIVE IT ON THE STORMWATER, OK? YES. YOU HAVE A MIKE, NATALIE. THANK.
[BUSINESS (Part 2 of 2)]
YEAH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.SO I'M HERE TO TALK TO YOU THIS EVENING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART, WHICH IS WATER QUALITY, USUALLY WHEN OUR CITY ENGINEER FRANK WATANABE IS PRESENTING, HE'S PRESENTING ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS.
ESPECIALLY STORMWATER INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS MORE RELATED TO WATER QUANTITY AND FLOODING.
THERE IS A VERY IMPORTANT ROLE THAT MUCH OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE PLAYS, AND THAT IS A WATER QUALITY ROLE.
THAT ROLE IS IS DICTATED BY THE FDP AND WE HAVE PROGRAMS THAT ARE RUN THROUGH THE FDP THAT ORIGINATED FROM THE EPA.
SO TODAY WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE CITY OF PALM BAY'S PHASE TWO MS. FOR NYPD'S PERMIT TMD, DLS, BMA, PS AND CURRENT AND FUTURE WATER QUALITY PROJECTS IN THE TURKEY CREEK AND THE INDIAN RIVER LAGOON.
AGAIN, I'M NATALIE SCHEIBER, ENGINEER TWO, AT THE CITY OF PALM BAY PUBLIC WORKS, AND THE NYPD IS COORDINATOR AT PUBLIC WORKS FOR THE PHASE TWO MS. FOUR PERMIT.
SO I'VE GIVEN YOU A WHOLE BUNCH OF ACRONYMS, AND IF YOU'RE NOT FROM NASA AND YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THESE, RAISE YOUR HANDS.
WELL, I WANT TO SAY THAT'S GOOD.
MAYBE YOU WON'T BE TOTALLY BORED.
OK, SO I'M GOING TO NOW I'M GOING TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW THIS THING WORKS.
ALL RIGHT, SO LET'S START WITH ONE OF THOSE ACRONYMS AND PDX PROGRAM NPY D STANDS FOR NATIONAL POLLUTANT DISCHARGE ELIMINATION SYSTEM.
THAT'S A LONG TITLE THERE FOR A PROGRAM THAT IS RUN BY OUR FDP, THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION, FOR REGULATING STORMWATER POLLUTION.
HONESTLY, IT SHOULD BE ELIMINATING STORMWATER POLLUTION, BUT THAT'S A LOFTY GOAL.
SO WHAT KIND OF THINGS ARE REGULATED WITHIN? IF YOU LOOK AT THE SLIDE, YOU'LL SEE THAT POINT SOURCES ARE CONTROLLED, AND I WILL TELL YOU WHAT A POINT SOURCES.
AND I'LL ALSO GIVE YOU A WELL, I'LL GIVE YOU A LITTLE QUIZ FIRST, JUST TO SEE IF ANYONE KNOWS WHAT A POINT SOURCES.
BUT THE PROGRAM REQUIRES PERMITS FOR DISCHARGE OF POLLUTANTS, AND THOSE PERMITS CAN BE.
WELL, THEY ARE FROM POINT SOURCES INTO THE WATER OF THE UNITED STATES, BUT THEY CAN BE MUNICIPAL, SUCH AS OUR CITY OF PALM BAY, MS. FOR PHASE TWO AND PDS PERMIT.
THEY CAN BE FROM CONSTRUCTION, AND WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANTS ARE A BIG POINT SOURCE.
SO WHO HAS JURISDICTION OVER THIS PROGRAM? WELL, THE PROGRAM ORIGINATED WITH THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, WHICH, AS YOU
[00:10:02]
KNOW, IS A FEDERAL AGENCY.BUT THE EPA HAS GIVEN ITS MANY STATES THEIR OWN JURISDICTION.
IN FACT, THE ONLY STATES THAT DON'T HAVE JURISDICTION OVER THE NYPD'S PROGRAM ARE MASSACHUSETTS, NEW HAMPSHIRE, NEW MEXICO AND IDAHO.
ALL OF THE OTHER STATES HAVE BEEN DELEGATED THE AUTHORITY TO DEVELOP THE STORMWATER PROGRAMS AND PERMITS, OR OUR FDP HAS A JURISDICTION.
SO BY THAT, I MEAN, THE FDP ISSUES PERMITS HAS ISSUED THE CITY'S PERMIT, AND THERE ARE MANY COMPLIANCE ACTIVITIES THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH KEEPING THAT PERMIT ACTIVE AND PROTECTING OUR STORMWATER RESOURCES.
QUICK QUIZ, MAKE SURE NOBODY'S ASLEEP YET.
WHAT IS THE POINT SOURCE? CAN ANYBODY LOOK AT THOSE TWO PICTURES AND MAYBE TAKE A GUESS AS TO WHICH ONE IS A POINT SOURCE? THEY'RE KIND OF TRICKY.
EVEN IF YOU DO KNOW WHAT A POINT SOURCES.
THE BIG ONE IS A POINT SOURCE, VERY GOOD YOU ARE.
ONE OFF LEAD INTO A MAJOR WATER SOURCE.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT 10 POINTS.
SO THERE'S THIS BIG, LONG DEFINITION, ANY DISCERNIBLE CONFINED DISCRETE CONVEYANCE, AND IT INCLUDES NOT LIMITED TO PIPES AND DITCHES AND CHANNELS AND TUNNELS AND CONDUITS, WELLS, DISCRETE FISSURES, ALL THESE WEIRD THINGS CONTAINERS AND ROLLING STOCK.
NOT EVEN SURE WHAT THAT IS CONCENTRATED ANIMAL FEEDING OPERATION, WHICH IS THAT PICTURE TO THE LEFT AND LANDFILL LEACHATE COLLECTION SYSTEMS, VESSELS AND OR FLOATING CRAFT.
SO ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE POINT SOURCES, AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS WOULD REQUIRE PERMITS DEPENDING ON THE SIZE.
OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU WERE TO DISCHARGE FROM YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY, THAT WOULD JUST BE AN ILLICIT DISCHARGE AND IT WOULD FALL UNDER CERTAIN CRITERIA IN OUR NYPD'S PERMIT.
SO THE FDP WON'T COME AFTER YOU.
IT'S UP TO THE CITY TO ENSURE THAT OUR RESIDENTS ARE COMPLIANT WITH THE PERMIT.
SO AND THEN WHAT IS NOT CONSIDERED A POINT SOURCE? IT DOES NOT INCLUDE RETURN FLOWS FROM IRRIGATED AGRICULTURE, WHICH WAS THE SMALLER OF THE TWO PICTURES ON THE LEFT.
AND YOU WERE QUITE RIGHT, MR. EDWARDS, THAT THE ONE ON THE RIGHT, THE WHICH WAS A POINT SOURCE.
THE ONE ON THE LEFT WAS RETURN IRRIGATION FROM AN AGRICULTURAL FACILITY, SO IT DOES NOT INCLUDE IRRIGATED AGRICULTURE, RETURN FLOWS FROM IRRIGATED AGRICULTURE OR AGRICULTURAL STORMWATER RUNOFF.
HOWEVER, JUST TO JUST TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR, EVEN THOUGH THE CATTLE FARM FEEDING OPERATION THERE ON YOUR LEFT IS AGRICULTURAL, IT'S NOT TRULY BECAUSE IT IS NOT, YOU KNOW, PLANT AGRICULTURAL.
SO IT'S A FARM, IT'S A FEEDING OPERATION, AND IT IS CONSIDERED A POINT SOURCE.
OK, SO WE GOT LOTS ON POINT SOURCES.
SO. IT'S THE OCTOPUS AS IT, PLEASE.
ON BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN, SO IN IN AN AGRICULTURAL FEEDING OPERATION SUCH AS COWS, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THEY DOING? THEY'RE GRAZING, THEY'RE EATING AND THEY'RE ELIMINATING WASTE, AND THAT WASTE USUALLY ENDS UP IN AGRICULTURAL DITCHES.
THOSE AGRICULTURAL DITCHES GENERALLY FLOW MUCH LIKE THEY DID MANY YEARS AGO, AND SOME STILL DO INTO LARGE WATERWAYS OF EITHER THE CITY OR COUNTY OR SO.
IT POINT SOURCE BEING ANY CHANNEL THAT COMES FROM THAT FEEDING OPERATION WHEN THEY ELIMINATE WASTE TO POLLUTANTS IN PARTICULAR, ARE CONSIDERED VERY EGREGIOUS IN OUR SYSTEM.
THOSE TWO POLLUTANTS ARE NITROGEN AND PHOSPHORUS, AND THEY ARE ABUNDANT IN ANY KIND OF WASTE ANIMAL WASTE.
[00:15:02]
SO YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF HUNDRED COWS AND THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, GOING, YOU KNOW, WHEREVER THEY ARE, THEY'RE EATING AND THEY'RE THEY'RE GOING TO THE BATHROOM AND THAT OPERATION, WHEREVER IT DISCHARGES, THAT IS A POINT SOURCE FOR POLLUTION.UM, SO I WANT TO GIVE YOU SOME BACKGROUND ON THE NYPD'S PROGRAM, YOU KNOW, WHERE DID IT COME FROM? ORIGINALLY, THE NYPD'S PROGRAM WAS INSTATED THROUGH THE CLEAN WATER ACT, AND I DON'T WANT TO GO TOO FAR AHEAD.
I'M WONDERING IF ANYONE IS FAMILIAR WITH.
CAN YOU EVEN SEE WHAT THE PICTURE TO THE RIGHT IS SHOWING? BUT IT'S A FIRE.
CORRECT? LOTS OF LOTS OF BLACK SMOKE, SO IT'S TELLING YOU THAT THERE'S OIL OR SOME TYPE OF FUEL ON FIRE, AND THAT'S WHERE THE BLACK SMOKE COMES FROM.
CAN YOU SEE WHAT'S? SO. IT'S IT'S MORE OR LESS AN OIL SPILL.
IT'S ACTUALLY THE I WANT TO SAY THIS CORRECTLY CUYAHOGA RIVER IN CLEVELAND, OHIO, THAT CAUGHT ON FIRE IN 1969.
SO YOU CAN SEE IT'S VERY DRAMATIC.
IT'S HUGE. THERE'S AN ENTIRE RIVER THAT FLOWS TO LAKE ERIE THAT CAUGHT ON FIRE FROM A SPARK FROM A PASSING RAILROAD PASSING TRAIN THAT SET A SPARK INTO THE RIVER AND THE RIVER WENT UP IN FLAMES.
SO THE EPA? FORMULATED THE CLEAN WATER ACT, AND THE OBJECTIVE OF THAT LAW THAT WAS PASSED WAS TO RESTORE AND MAINTAIN THE CHEMICAL, PHYSICAL AND BIOLOGICAL INTEGRITY OF THE NATION'S WATERS, SO THE GOALS AND THESE WERE CONSIDERED ACHIEVABLE.
SOMEHOW, THE GOALS OF THE CLEAN WATER ACT WERE TO MAKE ALL WATERS OF THE UNITED STATES FISH BOWL AND SWIM A RULE BY 1983.
THAT'S OBVIOUSLY HASN'T HAPPENED YET.
1985 ELIMINATE POLLUTION DISCHARGE TO WATER.
OBVIOUSLY HASN'T HAPPENED YET.
HOWEVER, WE STILL MOVE ON AND CONTINUE TO DO WHAT WE CAN HERE IN OUR CITY AND WITHIN OUR STATE, SOME, YOU KNOW, FUN FACTS BEHIND OR VERY SAD FACTS BEHIND THE CLEAN WATER ACT OF 1972. IT WAS JUNE 22ND, 1969, WHEN THE QUIROGA RIVER IN CLEVELAND, OHIO, WAS ON FIRE.
THE CUYAHOGA RIVER AND MANY OTHERS WERE INITIALLY JUST DUMPS FOR INDUSTRIAL WASTE.
SO WE WENT THROUGH THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION, WHICH WAS FANTASTIC.
LOTS OF PROGRESS, BUT ABSOLUTELY NO ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS.
SO THESE RIVERS JUST BECAME BIG INDUSTRIAL WASTE DUMPS.
IN FACT, MR. J. D. ROCKEFELLER STARTED STANDARD OIL ON ITS EAST BANK IN DURING THE CIVIL WAR.
AND SO IN 1972, CONGRESS WAS FACING SOME REALLY SERIOUS POINT SOURCE POLLUTION FROM INDUSTRIAL PLANTS, FROM WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANTS.
NONE OF THESE THINGS WERE REGULATED, AND OUR RIVERS BECAME DUMPING GROUNDS.
AND JUST ANOTHER SAD FACT IS SINCE NINETEEN FIFTY TWENTY NINE RIVERS BURNED SIMILARLY TO A RIVER, SO WE REACHED A TIPPING POINT, REACHED A POINT WHERE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WERE SAYING NO MORE.
CLOSER TO HOME, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING MORE RECENTLY HERE IN OUR WONDERFUL URL, WHICH IS AN AMAZING RESOURCE AND IT'S IT'S A NATIONAL TREASURE.
THE COUNTS OF BOTTLENOSE DOLPHINS IN IN THE URL HAS MAINTAINED AND BEEN VERY STEADY OVER THE PAST 30 40 YEARS, AND THEY'VE BEEN, YOU KNOW, THE DATA HAS BEEN GATHERED OVER THAT TIME. IN BETWEEN 2011 AND 2015, THERE WERE THERE WAS A HIGH MORTALITY RATE OF DOLPHINS AND MANATEES.
SO OVER THE LIFE OF ALL THAT DATA COLLECTION, IT WAS ESTIMATED THERE WERE A THOUSAND BOTTLENOSE DOLPHINS IN THE URL.
[00:20:01]
AND YOU KNOW, EVERY YEAR, SOME WOULD DIE, SOME WOULD BE BORN.BUT BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, WE'D MAINTAIN STEADY LEVELS UNTIL 2013, WHEN WE HAD SEVERAL MAJOR ALGAL BLOOMS SEAGRASS THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, DECIMATED.
AND WHAT RESULTED IN AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN WITH THE BOTTLENOSE DOLPHINS IS AT SEVENTY SEVEN OR EIGHT PERCENT OF THOSE DOLPHINS DIED IN TWENTY THIRTEEN, WHICH IS A VERY HIGH NUMBER. SO.
HUBS RESEARCH CENTER THEY HAVE DONE, YOU KNOW, LOTS OF RESEARCH ON WHAT THOSE CAUSES ARE.
AND AGAIN, THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE ANSWER, BUT I BELIEVE JUST BASED ON THE ACTIONS OF THE STATE AND THE COUNTY THAT I THINK EVERYBODY'S IS FAIRLY IN AGREEMENT, THAT IT IS THE POLLUTION THAT IS CAUSED ALGAL BLOOMS, ALGAL BLOOMS RESULT IN A LACK IN SEAGRASS DYING SEAGRASS DYING MEANS BASICALLY THE WHOLE ECOSYSTEM IS TURNED UPSIDE DOWN AND AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN YOU SEE DEATHS, YOU SEE MORTALITY.
AND SO SIMILAR TO THE DOLPHINS THIS YEAR, 11 PERCENT OF THE ESTIMATED FOUR THOUSAND MANATEES ON THE EAST COAST HAVE DIED BETWEEN JANUARY 23RD, JAN AND APRIL 23RD OF THIS YEAR. SO THESE NUMBERS, YOU KNOW, IT'S AN INDICATOR.
IT'S AN INDICATOR OF THE HEALTH OF A NATIONAL TREASURE.
AN ESTUARY. ONE OF THE GREATEST ECONOMIC, YOU KNOW, TOURISM BASED.
YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT WE HAVE AND WE'RE LOSING, WE'RE LOSING A PART OF IT THROUGH NOT ADDRESSING THESE, THE WATER QUALITY THAT ENTERS THE LAGOON, THE THE MUCK THAT ENTERS THE LAGOON AND CAUSES ITS DESTRUCTION ULTIMATELY.
SO WHAT EXACTLY IS A PHASE TWO MS. FOR PERMIT? WELL, AN MS. FOR IS A MUNICIPAL SEPARATED STORM SEWER SYSTEM, AND BASICALLY IT'S ALL OF YOUR INLETS AND PIPES AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
THAT WHOLE SYSTEM, ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT CONNECTS THE STORMWATER SYSTEM THAT CONNECTS TO OUR CANALS, THE CANALS THAT CONNECT TO THE SIWON CANAL AND INTO THE TURKEY CREEK AND INDIAN RIVER LAGOON.
SO THE HARDWARE OF THE SYSTEM IS OUR MS. FOR AND MS. SPORES ARE FOUND IN MUNICIPALITIES LIKE OURS AND COUNTIES AND TOWNSHIPS, SCHOOLS, UNIVERSITIES, ETC.
AND MS. FOR PERMITS, DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF, YOU KNOW, THESE AGENCIES MS. FOR PERMITS MAYBE ISSUED TO THE AGENCY.
AND AS I SAID BEFORE, INDIVIDUAL PERMITS MAY BE ISSUED FOR CONSTRUCTION AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. SO WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO TO TO MAINTAIN PERMIT COMPLIANCE? THE CITY OF PALM BAY HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF MEETING THE ELEMENTS THAT THE EPA SET OUT.
THE FDP HAS EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS EXPECTS US TO REPORT UPON WHAT BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES WE ARE USING TO MEET THE ELEMENTS FOR THE.
FOR THE NYPD'S PERMIT, AND SOME OF THOSE ARE PUBLIC EDUCATION, PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT.
ELIMINATE ILLICIT DISCHARGES AND EROSION AND SEDIMENT CONTROLS IN CONSTRUCTION.
AND THEN BE IMPOSED TO MANAGE POST CONSTRUCTION, STORMWATER AND POLLUTION PREVENTION FOR MUNICIPAL OPERATIONS.
WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO IMPROVE OUR WATER QUALITY NOW RELATED TO THE NYPD'S PROGRAM OR SOME OTHER ACRONYMS. THE TMD PROGRAM, THE BITMAPS MAPS THAT PLAN TO, YOU KNOW, ACHIEVE THE GOALS OF THE TMD PROGRAM IMPAIRED WATER BODIES.
[00:25:03]
SO THE CENTRAL EARL IS AN IMPAIRED WATER BODY AND IMPAIRED WATER BODY IS ANY IS ANY WATER BODY WHERE WE HAVE OVER BACKGROUND AND AND DEPENDENT ON THE USE OF THAT WATER BODY. IT'S IT IT.THE RESULTS SHOW EXCESSIVE POLLUTANTS, AND THOSE POLLUTANTS ARE THEN TABULATED BY THE FTP AND THEY COME UP WITH A BASE OF MANAGEMENT ACTION PLAN.
AND THE BASIN MANAGEMENT ACTION PLAN IS MEANT TO ACHIEVE WHATEVER THE TMD TOTAL MAXIMUM DAILY LOAD OR THAT PARTICULAR WATER BODIES.
SO WE ARE PART OF THE CENTRAL EARL AND IT'S THE CENTRAL EARL IS IMPAIRED FOR TOTAL NITROGEN AND TOTAL PHOSPHORUS, AND THE PRINCIPAL SOURCES OF THOSE NUTRIENTS ARE AGRICULTURE. OUR VERY OWN MS. FOUR POINT SOURCE FACILITIES LIKE DOMESTIC AND INDUSTRIAL WASTEWATER FACILITIES AND OF COURSE, SEPTIC SYSTEMS AND MANY OTHER STORMWATER SOURCES THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
THE OTHER CITIES AND COUNTIES IN THE CENTRAL EARL WOULD BE THE INDIAN RIVER COUNTY, SO VERO BEACH SO THAT THIS WHOLE SECTION IS RESPONSIBLE FOR POLLUTANTS ENTERING THE EARL AND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR.
OK. IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IMPLEMENTING THE BASE AND MANAGEMENT ACTION PLAN THAT THE DEP HAS HAS PUT FORWARD.
SO WE TALKED ABOUT THE TOTAL MAXIMUM DAILY LOAD.
IT'S IT'S AN ALLOWABLE LOAD THAT THE DEP ESTABLISHES THAT EVERYONE WHO HAS AN MS. FOR PERMIT AND EVEN THOSE WHO DON'T ARE REQUIRED TO MEET AS LONG AS THEY DISCHARGE TO AN IMPAIRED WATER BODY, AS WE DO.
SO THE BASIN MANAGEMENT ACTION PLAN IS A FRAMEWORK FOR WATER QUALITY RESTORATION.
IT CONTAINED CONTAINING LOCAL AND STATE COMMITMENTS TO REDUCE POLLUTANT LOADING THROUGH CURRENT AND FUTURE PROJECTS AND STRATEGIES.
SO THAT'S WHERE WE COME IN AT PUBLIC WORKS.
IT'S HOW DO WE MEET THE TWO MODELS THAT ARE SET BY THE DEP? HOW DO WE KEEP OUR PERMIT COMPLIANT? WE ARE EXPECTED TO IMPLEMENT PUMPS WHICH ARE OUR BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES FOR STORMWATER UPSTREAM OF OUR DISCHARGE POINT, WHICH IS A WONDERFUL TURKEY CREEK.
AND HOW WE DO THAT IS IS WHAT I'M GOING TO SHARE WITH YOU IN THE CENTRAL EARL BE MAP, WHICH WAS PUT FORWARD IN FEBRUARY 2021.
IT'S THIS, AS I SAID BEFORE CENTRAL EARL IS BREVARD INDIAN RIVER ST.
THE MAP WAS FIRST ADOPTED IN 2013 FOR THE CENTRAL EARL, SO ABOUT THE TIME THAT THERE WERE SEVERAL MORTALITIES FOR DOLPHINS.
AND SO BELOW, HERE ARE SOME STATS YOU KNOW, BREVARD COUNTY HAS 19 PROJECTS LISTED THAT ARE BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES THAT HELP TO HELP TO ACHIEVE THE TOTAL MAXIMUM DAILY ALLOWABLE LOADS.
THE CITY OF MELBOURNE ONLY 13 PROJECTS THE CITY OF PALM BAY.
CURRENTLY, WE HAVE FORTY THREE PROJECTS, SO I WANT TO SAY WAY TO GO PALM BAY.
SO WE HAVE FORTY THREE BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES THAT AIM TO REDUCE TOTAL MAXIMUM DAILY POLLUTANT LOADS.
SO HERE IS A MAP OF THE NORTHEAST SECTION OF PALM BAY.
AND THIS OVER HERE IS OUR TURKEY CREEK.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE THESE DOTS, THESE COLORED DOTS REPRESENT VARIOUS DIFFERENT BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES.
SO WE HAVE A COUPLE UP HERE AT UNIVERSITY BOULEVARD, BAFFLE BOX AND NUTRIENT FILTERS.
THESE OVER HERE ARE ACTUALLY DIRECT DISCHARGE WITH NO FILTERS WHATSOEVER.
[00:30:03]
THEY ARE UNFORTUNATELY OWNED BY THE FDA.SO THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION.
SO UNFORTUNATELY, WE DO NOT HAVE JURISDICTION.
MAYBE AT SOME POINT WE WILL WORK WITH THEM TO, YOU KNOW, PUT SOME BUMPS IN HERE TO REDUCE OUR OUR LOADING.
AND THEN OVER HERE, THESE BLUE DOTS ARE BAFFLE BOXES.
I'M NOT SURE HOW FAMILIAR YOU ARE WITH THOSE BAFFLE BOXES BASICALLY REDUCE NUTRIENTS, SO THEY ARE THE BEST TECHNOLOGY TO DATE THAT AID AND NUTRIENT REDUCTION AND UP FLOW FILTERS.
THAT'S BASICALLY A BIG BAFFLE BOX WITH A CERTAIN TYPE OF MEDIA.
WATER FLOWS THROUGH IT, THE NUTRIENTS STICK TO IT AND CLEANER WATER LEAVES.
SO WE HAVE ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE SIX, AND I BELIEVE THERE'S ONE DOWN HERE THAT'S NOT SHOWN. SEVEN BAFFLE BOXES.
AND THEN THERE ARE OTHER TYPES OF BUMPS.
WE HAVE INLET INLET SORT OF BASKETS THAT CONTAIN FLOCK LOGS ALONG PORT MALABAR FLOCK LOGS.
AGAIN, THEY TRAP, YOU KNOW, THE OILS AND EVERYTHING ELSE COMING OFF OF THE ROAD.
THE BASKETS TRAP NUTRIENT RICH LEAVES AND, YOU KNOW, CLIPPINGS FROM PEOPLE'S YARDS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND MONTHLY, THOSE BUMPS ARE MAINTAINED BY OUR STAFF AND PUBLIC WORKS.
THEY THEY CLEAN THEM ON A SCHEDULE AND MAKE SURE THAT THOSE NUTRIENTS THAT GET TRAPPED IN THE INLET GRATES AND FLOCK LOGS ARE REMOVED.
AND SIMILARLY, FOR THE BAFFLE BOXES, WE HAVE INSPECTORS TO GO AROUND AND DO WHAT WE CALL DRY WEATHER MONITORING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE SOME SORT OF, YOU KNOW, OILY DISCHARGE, OBVIOUS POLLUTANTS LEAVING SO THE INSPECTORS WILL GO AROUND AND MAKE SURE EVEN THE UNFILTERED OUTFALLS THEY WILL INSPECT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY VISIBLE POLLUTANTS ENTERING EITHER THE URL OR THE TURKEY CREEK.
AND THEN OUR OPERATIONS STAFF GOES OUT AND MAINTAINS THE BAFFLE BOXES, THE INLETS AND SO ON. SO THESE ARE THE PROJECTS THAT ARE CURRENTLY UNDER OUR CARE AND JURISDICTION AND GRANT FUNDING OVER, I WOULD SAY, SEVEN YEARS OR SO, MAYBE A BIT MORE.
AND THERE ARE SEVERAL GRANT FUNDING SOURCES SO THAT THAT ACTUALLY MAKES IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER. SO WE ARE DOING, I THINK, QUITE A BIT TO PROTECT THE EARL AND THE TURKEY CREEK.
SO YOU'VE SEEN WHAT'S CURRENTLY? ALL OF THOSE OUTLETS.
WHAT ARE? YEAH, SO THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.
ALL OF OUR WATERWAYS, YOU KNOW, THE MELBOURNE TILLMANN CANALS THAT ARE THAT RUN THROUGHOUT PALM BAY EVENTUALLY LEAD TO THE ONE CANAL AND THE SEA 82 CANAL.
SO EVERY BIT OF RUNOFF THROUGHOUT THE CITY THAT GETS TO A TILLMANN CANAL EVENTUALLY GETS TO TURKEY CREEK.
NOW THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED MIXING AND DILUTION.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE EVER HEARD THE SOLUTION TO POLLUTION IS DILUTION.
HOWEVER, UNTIL FAIRLY RECENTLY, MOST OF THE CANALS ALL DRAINED NORTH AND EAST.
NOW, FAIRLY RECENTLY, WE'VE HAD WHAT'S CALLED THE SWAN RIVER DIVERSION PROJECT THAT IS A ST. JOHN'S RIVER IN IN COOPERATION WITH MELBOURNE.
TILMAN SIWAN RE DIVERSION BASICALLY HAS TRIED TO DIVERT AT LEAST HALF OF THE WATER FROM THAT ENTERS THE S.1 CANAL.
[00:35:01]
THE SWAN IS THE EVENTUAL, YOU KNOW, OUTFALL FOR NORTH AND SOUTH.AND THEY'VE TRIED TO SEND AT LEAST 50 PERCENT OF THAT, AND THEY HAVE ACHIEVED THAT TO DATE AT LEAST 50 PERCENT BACK TO THE ST.
JOHNS RIVER BECAUSE ULTIMATELY, WELL, HISTORICALLY THE THE ST.
JOHNS RIVER AND THAT ENTIRE FLOODPLAIN WAS THE OUTFALL.
IT WAS ONLY AFTER, YOU KNOW, THESE AGRICULTURAL DITCHES, WHICH WHICH BECAME THE MELBOURNE 10 MILLION TILLMANN CANALS WERE DUG THAT THE TURKEY CREEK BEGAN RECEIVING THE THE FLOW FROM NORTH AND SOUTH IN PALM BAY.
SO YES, WE'RE WORKING, NOT WE, BUT THE ST.
JOHNS RIVER AND MELBOURNE TILLMANN ARE BOTH WORKING TO GET FLOWS GOING EAST WEST.
I'M SORRY. SO LOOKING AHEAD, THIS IS WHAT'S COMING.
THAT'S ALREADY IN THE WORKS THAT CITY OF PALM BAY IS WORKING ON TO IMPROVE FURTHER IMPROVE OUR WATER QUALITY.
WE HAVE A TURKEY CREEK RESTORATION FEASIBILITY STUDY THAT IS UNDERWAY, AND IT WAS PUT WE RECEIVED HOUSE APPROPRIATION FUNDING FOR THIS STUDY.
SO IT'S FULLY GRANT FUNDED AND THE STUDY WILL LOOK AT ALL EXISTING.
THERE'S LOTS OF EXISTING DATA OUT THERE.
WE DON'T NEED TO GO OUT AND GET MORE.
SO THERE ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT WHAT'S EXISTING OUT THERE.
THEY'RE GOING TO BE PUTTING IT TOGETHER INTO A REPORT.
AND A DELIVERABLE WILL BE A MASTER PLAN, WHICH WILL BE A MASTER WATER QUALITY STORMWATER IMPROVEMENT PLAN OVER FIVE YEARS WITHIN THE PLAN.
THERE WILL BE A PRIORITIZED LIST OF WATER QUALITY ENHANCING TIDAL ACHIEVING PROJECTS UPSTREAM. THEY WILL ALSO BE LOOKING AT MUCK REMOVAL, WHICH HAS BEEN SHOWN TO REDUCE THE FLUX OF NUTRIENTS AND HYDROCARBONS AND METALS AND ALL KINDS OF HORRIBLE STUFF INTO THE WATER COLUMN.
SO THEY ARE GOING TO BE DOING A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS AND THEY'RE GOING TO PRIORITIZE LISTS OF WATER QUALITY PROJECTS AND THEN THEY'RE GOING TO PROVIDE GRANT READY SCOPES FOR FUNDING OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.
I'M GOING TO THE WATER THAT'S WELL ENOUGH FOR.
SO RUN OFF FROM OUR LANDS, WHETHER IT'S FROM YOUR FRONT OR BACKYARD, WHETHER IT'S FROM GROUNDWATER, WHERE ALONG THE CREEK THERE ARE ALL THESE SEPTIC SYSTEMS, RUNOFF FROM THE ROADWAYS, RUNOFF IT IS, IT IS WASTEWATER.
IN FACT, IT'S IT'S CALLED STORMWATER AND IT IS THE BIGGEST SOURCE OF POLLUTANTS THAT THERE ARE. SO HOW DOES THIS AFFECT OUR RESIDENTS? SO TURKEY CREEK IS A GREAT RESOURCE.
IT COULD BE AN EXCELLENT ECONOMIC RESOURCE FOR BOATING.
WE COULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE ACTUALLY A FEW DECADES AGO, A VERY HEALTHY SHELL FISHING IN THE TURKEY CREEK.
THE TURKEY CREEK IS NOTHING BUT A TRICKLE THAT'S A FOOT DEEP IN PLACES.
AND THERE'S A TURKEY CREEK SANG TREE, WHICH IS A BIG TOURISM DRAW.
IT NO LONGER DRAWS TOURISM BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST NOT AS HEALTHY AS IT WAS.
SO IT AFFECTS THE ECONOMY OF PALM BAY.
BECAUSE WE'VE LOST SOME TOURISM DOLLARS, WE'VE LOST A NATURAL, YOU KNOW, SHELLFISH AND FISHERY. AND AGAIN, THE INDIAN RIVER LAGOON IS ALSO A NATIONAL TREASURE, AN ESTUARY AND A BIG PART OF THE TOURISM ECONOMY IN FLORIDA.
AND IT IS SLOWLY BEING DEGRADED.
SO THE IMPACT OF THE CITIZENS, I WOULD SAY, IS ONE WHERE THEIR NATURAL RESOURCE, A PLACE THAT THEY CAN GO TO BOAT AND FISH AND KAYAK TO VIEW BIRDS AND MANATEES AND OTHER ANIMALS IS IS GOING AWAY AND IS DYING.
AND UNLESS SOMETHING IS DONE ON A CONSISTENT BASIS, UNLESS WE PUT ENERGY INTO MAINTAINING
[00:40:08]
THIS SYSTEM, OUR CITIZENS WILL LOSE.SO I GUESS THAT'S THAT'S HOW IT AFFECTS OUR CITIZENS.
OK. SO PART OF THE WHOLE PROGRAM THAT OTHER CITIES ARE TALKING ABOUT.
IF YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE SABER INDIAN RIVER LAGOON, HALF SYNTAX, BREVARD COUNTY, INSTEAD OF THAT HALF CENT TAX TO FUND VARIOUS PROJECTS THAT THEY HAD ENGINEERING COMPANIES IDENTIFY AS BEING USEFUL IN RESTORING THE LAGOON.
SO I SAID BEFORE THAT THE CITY HAS GONE AFTER GRANT FUNDING AND CONTINUES TO GO AFTER GRANT FUNDING. SO THE SABER INDIAN RIVER LAGOON IS A BIG ONE.
YOU KNOW, THE ST. JOHNS RIVER WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT PROVIDES FUNDING.
THE FLORIDA INLAND NAVIGATION DISTRICT PROVIDES FUNDING.
THERE IS IS MORE FOR MUCK REMOVAL SO THAT WE DO HAVE A NICE WATERWAY WHERE PEOPLE CAN ENJOY BOATING FISHING.
IF YOU WANT TO GO, SIT AT A BOARDWALK AND YOU KNOW, HAVE A MEAL OR SOMETHING.
OK. UM, SO THAT THAT IS THE TURKEY CREEK RESTORATION FEASIBILITY STUDY, SO AGAIN, THAT'S A WATER QUALITY MASTER PLAN LOOKING INTO THE FUTURE WHERE WE'RE GOING TO GET MORE GRANT FUNDING TO DO MORE WATER QUALITY PROJECTS TO MEET NEEDS AND TIDAL GOALS.
SECONDLY, AND ACTUALLY THIS MR. WATANABE CAN SPEAK TO IS WE ALREADY HAVE FUNDING OF $300000, AND THAT FUNDING IS GOING TO BE USED TO PUT TWO NEW BAFFLE BOXES AT DIRECT DISCHARGES TO THE LAGOON TO THE TURKEY CREEK THAT AT THIS TIME ARE NOT DON'T HAVE THOSE BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES AND WATER QUALITY STUFF.
SO I THINK ONE OF THEM IS GOING TO GO TO GOODI PARK AND THE OTHER ONE.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE NORTH SIDE POLAR PARK, THAT AREA.
THERE'S NO NO TREATMENT, ALMOST NO TREATMENT AT ALL THERE.
SO THOSE ARE DIRECT POLLUTANT DISCHARGES STRAIGHT INTO THE TURKEY CREEK.
SO WE HAVE $300000 FROM AN FDA PPP GRANT AND ALSO VERY RECENTLY.
AND MS. MS. THEBACK CAN SPEAK TO THIS THESE CDBG GRANT FOR FOUR HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE THOUSAND, THAT IS FOR LAND ACQUISITION AND LOW TO MODERATE INCOME AREAS WHERE WE'D LIKE TO DO STORMWATER PROJECTS THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS AS GOOD FLOOD AND WATER QUALITY IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS.
SO THAT'S WHAT'S COMING IN THE SHORT TERM.
UM, FOR WATER QUALITY AND PALMY AND IMPROVEMENTS TO OUR STORMWATER MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, AND WE ARE AT THE END, YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS WITH.
ACTUALLY, NPDC, YES, DOES REGULATE GROUNDWATER AS WELL.
AND YES, OUR WELLS ARE AFFECTED BY WHAT WE DO ABOVE GROUND.
SO I MEAN, JUST JUST TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, IF YOU ARE A PAINT SHOP AND YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THE RULES OF YOUR PERMIT, YOU MAY BE DUMPING PAINT ONTO THE GROUND OR A CHEMICAL PLANT THINKING THAT, OH, IT'S ALL FINE.
WELL, IT ALL ENDS UP IN THE GROUNDWATER, AND THE GROUNDWATER, OF COURSE, ENDS UP IN YOUR WELL. SO IT DOES HAVE A HUGE IMPACT.
YEAH. AND THE MPD'S PROGRAM DOES HAVE RULES, AND THAT'S WHY THE PERMITS EXIST FOR THIS, FOR, YOU KNOW, PROPER DISPOSAL OF CHEMICALS AND CHEMICAL WASTES.
I MENTIONED EARLIER THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED.
MM HMM. BUT WHOSE FIRST THOSE FARMERS OR.
[00:45:05]
IT BE. YEAH.THERE ARE BEST MANDARIN PRACTICES FROM THE FDP THAT THEY NEED TO FOLLOW.
LIKE I SAID, PAYING SHOPS ANYWHERE THAT YOU CAN HAVE SOME DISCHARGE EITHER TO SURFACE WATER OR TO A GROUNDWATER, AND A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THAT IS GOING TO BE REGULATED BY THE NYPD'S PROGRAM.
AND YOU KNOW, PART OF PART OF OUR PERMIT IS REDUCING ILLICIT DISCHARGES.
MR. DISCHARGES ARE TO SURFACE WATER OR GROUNDWATER.
SO IF WE RECEIVE REPORTS OF WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD REPORTS OF RESTAURANTS DUMPING THEIR OIL AND STUFF THAT ENDS UP SEEPING INTO THE GROUND AND AFFECTING THE GROUNDWATER, IT'S IT'S UP TO US TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE THEM AWARE OF THAT ILLICIT DISCHARGE ORDINANCE AND TO EDUCATE, FOR THE MOST PART.
YES, I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, NOT.
YOU TALKED ABOUT RESTORING TURKEY CREEK, I GUESS THIS QUESTION IS MORE FOR MR BATTEN THAN ANYBODY ELSE, BILL.
A YEAR OR TWO AGO, SOMEBODY CAME IN WITH A PRESENTATION THAT SHOWED WHAT TURKEY CREEK USED TO LOOK LIKE AND HOW CLOGGED UP IT IS NOW.
REMEMBER THAT AND WHO IT WAS? THAT WAS THAT YOUR WAS AT YOUR PRESENTATION, FRANK.
YOU MAY BE REFERRING TO MR. JOHN MUNJOY, WHO IS.
IT WAS, YEAH, HE'S A VERY VOCAL ACTIVIST AND HE ACTUALLY WAS THE HE WAS KIND OF THE IMPETUS BEHIND THE THE, YOU KNOW, GOING AFTER THE GRANT.
I WAS STILL NEW TO THE CITY AND YOU KNOW, MR. MONJUVI WOULD WOULD SHOW HIS PICTURES OF THE, YOU KNOW, THE BEAUTIFUL TURKEY CREEK BACK IN THE 40S.
AND HE HAS A WONDERFUL DREAM OF OF HAVING THE TURKEY CREEK RESTORED TO THAT LEVEL OF HEALTH, WHICH WE'D ALL LOVE AND WOULD LOVE TO DO.
BUT OF COURSE, IT HAS TO BE ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE.
I MEAN, THE ULTIMATE GOAL, YOU HAVE TO SET A HIGH BAR.
I SUPPOSE IF YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE ANYTHING GOOD, YOU PROBABLY JUST GO FOR THE VERY BEST AND THEN HOPEFULLY YOU ACHIEVE SOMETHING THAT'S REASONABLE.
BUT WE ARE MOVING FORWARD IN THAT DIRECTION AND NOT BACKWARDS.
CORRECT? RIGHT? UM, THERE USED TO BE SIGNS AROUND THE CITY TALKING ABOUT LAND BEING IRRIGATED WITH RECLAIMED WATER.
WHAT'S THE CITY'S CURRENT USE OF RECLAIMED WATER AND WHAT'S BEING DONE WITH IT? UM, WELL, I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR UTILITIES, BUT I DON'T THINK RECLAIMED IS BEING USED AS MUCH AS IT SHOULD BE.
AND I THINK THE PLACES THAT IT IS BEING USED, UNFORTUNATELY, ARE THE WORST POSSIBLE PLACES FOR RECLAIMED WATER TO BE USED AT THIS TIME.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE CONCRETE ANSWERS ON THAT.
LAST COUNCIL MEETING DURING THE BUDGET ADVISER TO TURN THE BUDGET HAWKS AND I BROUGHT UP THE GROUNDWATER FOR BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THEY'RE LOOKING AT WAS SETTING THE PRICE PRICE WAIT FOR THE RECLAIMED WATER NOW FOR REDISTRIBUTION, THE PRICE RATE AND WE BROUGHT AND I BROUGHT THAT UP BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENS WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT WATER QUALITY IS THEY TAKE THE SEWAGE SEWAGE, THEY TREAT THE WATER AND THAT'S THE RECLAIMED WATER. BUT THEY TAKE A COUPLE OF STEPS FURTHER TO MAKE WHAT THEY CALL THE RECLAIMED WATER THAT COULD BE GOOD ENOUGH FOR IRRIGATION AND GOING BACK ON TO SURFACE.
BUT WHAT THEY DO, WHAT THEY DON'T USE, HERE'S THE SCARY PART ABOUT THAT WHOLE THING, BUT DOES NOT GET USED.
OF THAT HIGHLY TREATED WATER GETS PUT INTO DEEP WELL INJECTION AND DEEP WELL INJECTION IS WATER THAT NEVER COMES BACK.
SO IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE FILTERED BACK TO YOUR SURFACE AREA OR ANYTHING ELSE.
IT IS GONE AND THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH SO SO MUCH POTABLE WATER LEFT ON THE SURFACE OF THE SERVICE THAT'S USABLE FOR HUMAN IS SUITABLE FOR HUMANS.
WE'RE JUST PUMPING IN BY THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF GALLONS A DAY INTO A DEEP WELL INJECTION ALONG WITH THAT DEEP WELL.
I DON'T TURN THIS INTO A SCIENCE CLASS HERE.
[00:50:01]
ALONG WITH THAT DEEP WELL INJECTION IS THE HIGHEST CITRIC ACID OF THAT.TREATED WATER IS NOW EATING UP THE LIMESTONES FORCES IT'S HOLDING UP.
THE STATE OF FLORIDA IS EATING AWAY AT THAT THAT SHELL AND BACKBONE SUPPORT IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA. BUT IT'S ONE MORE TIME WHERE IF WE DON'T SEE IT, WE DON'T KNOW.
IT'S A PROBLEM. BUT WE'RE SAYING, SEE, WE'RE TREATING THE WATER, WE'RE THE GOOD GUYS.
WHEN THEORETICALLY, YOU'RE JUST AS WELL OFF, JUST GO AHEAD AND LETTING US SEE AND PERCOLATE THROUGH THE GROUND.
THAT'S WHAT WE'LL GO BACK AND FORTH ON TREATMENT BECAUSE THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT SCIENCES WHOSE SCIENCE IS RIGHT.
I KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THIS DEEP, WELL INJECTION.
I KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING BELOW GROUND, BUT I ALSO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU DO NATURAL FILTRATION AND NATURAL EVAPORATION AND WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH THAT BYPRODUCT, BUT THAT TAKES LAND MASS.
BUT EITHER WAY, WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS THE DEEP, WELL INJECTION.
IF IT DOESN'T GET PUT ONTO IRRIGATION FOR PLANTS AND CROPS AND LAWNS, IT AUTOMATICALLY JUST GOES INTO A WELL AND IT'S GONE AFTER THEY'VE TREATED IT.
SO THERE'S YOUR LITTLE BIT OF MORE.
THANK YOU. YUP. AND THAT IS A VERY VALID POINT, AND I WISH I WAS PART OF THE UTILITIES DEPARTMENT BECAUSE I WOULD NOT BE DOING DEEP WELL INJECTION.
HOWEVER, I WILL SAY THAT WE ARE WE ARE DOING OUR PART TO LOOK AT THE RECLAIMED WATER THAT IS BEING USED BECAUSE IT WAS NOT THE HIGHEST QUALITY THAT COULD BE ACHIEVED.
AND ACTUALLY, THE UTILITIES DEPARTMENT IS RIGHT NOW UPGRADING THEIR WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT TO PRODUCE A HIGHER QUALITY OF RECLAIMED WATER.
SO I CAN'T MAKE ANY PROMISES, BUT I CERTAINLY MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THE DEEP WELL INJECTION. I DO AGREE THAT IS NOT THE WAY TO GO.
AND WITH ALL THE GROWTH THAT WE HAVE IN PALM BAY RIGHT NOW, WE COULD BE USING A LOT OF A LOT MORE RECLAIMED.
FRANK, WHAT AREAS OF THE CITY IS RECLAIMED AVAILABLE? WE WE ONLY HAVE A SMALL SEGMENT OF AREAS THAT HAVE RECLAIMED WATER CLOSE TO THE SOUTH PLANT AND REALLY RECLAIMED WATER IF NOT USED TO.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S THREE TYPES OF PIPES TASB INSTALLED THE BLUE PIPE OUT OF WATER BLUE.
THE GREEN PIPE IS A SEWER WATER, AND THEN THE PURPLE PIPE YOU DON'T SEE HERE AT ALL IS THE RECLAIMED WATER. IN AREAS WHERE I COME FROM, I LIVE DOWN IN RIVER COUNTY AND IT'S EVERYWHERE. EVERY TIME YOU SEE A TRENCH OPERATION, YOU SEE THE BLUE, YOU SEE THE GREEN, YOU SEE THE PURPLE BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT RECLAIMED WATER, BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY GOLF COURSES DOWN THERE. THEY WANT THAT WATER.
SO LIKE BILL SAYING, INSTEAD OF WASTING ALL THAT RECLAIMED WATER, THEY PUMP IT BACK OUT INTO THE IRRIGATION SYSTEM.
FOR THE GOLF COURSES, THE MEDIAN ISLANDS, ALL THE GREEN AREAS, IT'S ALL RECLAIMED WATER AND IT'S GOOD, ACTUALLY.
I MEAN, IT'S YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO DRINK OUT OF IT.
I WOULD DRINK IT, BUT HE'S SUPPOSED TO PUT A DRINK OUT IN CALIFORNIA.
I WOULDN'T. I WOULDN'T EITHER.
BUT YOU KNOW, IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE CLEAN ENOUGH.
BUT YOU KNOW, THERE'S THAT SENSE IT CAME FROM POOP WATER, SO NOBODY WANTS IT.
VERY GOOD. VERY GOOD FOR IRRIGATION.
YOU DON'T. I DON'T SEE THE PURPLE PIPE.
THERE'S A SMALL AREA WE HAVE AROUND THE SOUTH PLANT AND THAT'S IT.
YOU DON'T SEE, LIKE RIGHT NOW.
RECENTLY, WE WERE INSTALLING ALL THE NEW PIPES DOWN ST.
JOHN'S HERITAGE PARKWAY. HE SAW THE BLUE, HE SAW THE GREEN.
I DIDN'T SEE ANY PURPLE. OH, PURPLE.
IS THAT A CITY POLICY AS SOMETHING THAT? THEY COULD LOOK TO ADOPT THE PART OF THE.
ALL. IT'S MORE OF A SUPPLY DEMAND, YOU KNOW, NEXT THING WHERE I COME FROM, THERE'S A BIG DEMAND THAT THEY WANT TO RECLAIM WATER.
THEY KNOW THAT THE THAT'S GOING TO HELP THE ENVIRONMENT, SO THEY'RE PUTTING INTO THEIR POLICIES AND THE REGULATIONS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO PUT IN RECLAIMED WATER.
AND A LOT OF THEM WANTS TO BECAUSE THEY HAVE SAID THEY HAVE A LOT MORE AFFLUENT STORES AND GOLF COURSES THAT YOU KNOW, IT'S CHEAPER TO USE TO RECLAIM WATER, SO THEY PREFER TO HAVE THE PURPLE PIPE. SO I'M ASKING YOU SAID THAT DEMAND.
LOOK, IS IT SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BRING TO THE COUNCIL SO IT BECOMES A PART OF LIKE WHAT YOU'RE SPEAKING ABOUT WHEN THEY'RE PLAYING THESE NEW PIPES, THEY'RE IN PIPES OR I THINK I THINK ALL THESE BOARDS, YOU HAVE A GOOD PART OF IT BECAUSE YOU'RE THE INFRASTRUCTURE ADVISORY BOARD, THE SUSTAINABILITY BOARD, DEFINITELY THOSE PEOPLE.
IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER BOARDS THAT DEAL WITH THE ENVIRONMENT, THOSE BOARDS ALL SHOULD SAY THEY SHOULD HAVE THESE POLICIES AND YOU SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT IT BECAUSE LIKE NOW THEY'RE SAY IT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE ENFORCING IT IN TERMS OF TRYING TO EDUCATE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT SAYS THIS IS A GOOD THING TO DO, EVEN THOUGH TODAY MAY NOT BE COST AFFORDABLE. BUT IN THE FUTURE, IT WILL BE COULD BE LIKE AN OFFICIAL PRESENT.
SO WE GET THE NEXT MEETING SO THAT WE UNDERSTAND IT'S KIND OF A IT'S KIND OF ATP TOUR BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU ALSO HAVE UTILITY BOARD AND THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE MANAGING SOME OF THOSE POLICIES WITHIN BECAUSE IT'S CONSIDERED UNDER THE UTILITY REALM.
DO YOU THINK THE UTILITY DIRECTOR COULD COME AND JUST GIVE A PRESENTATION LIKE A GOOD
[00:55:04]
IDEA? LIKE AN OVERVIEW? GOOD IDEA. AN OVERVIEW OF THE RECLAIM SYSTEM, MAYBE TALK ABOUT THE UPGRADES THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE MAKING TO THE WASTEWATER PLANT.EXCELLENT. I THINK I THINK THAT MIGHT LIGHT A FIRE A LITTLE BIT, SO I WOULD BE GREAT.
I MEAN, NOT TO MAKE ANY TYPE OF LIKE POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT JUST TO EDUCATE THIS BOARD ON EXACTLY WHAT TO DO.
BECAUSE I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THERE WAS LIKE A PERMIT REQUIREMENT THAT YOU HAD TO USE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE IS A PERMIT REQUIREMENT.
I DO KNOW THAT I WANT TO SAY IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN BREVARD COUNTY.
THERE WAS A MANDATE THAT ALL NEW SUBDIVISIONS WERE REQUIRED TO USE RECLAIMED ITS AGAIN.
I DON'T THINK. I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE I COME FROM ANY RIVER COUNTY AND VERO BEACH.
IT'S IN THERE. YOU HAVE THERE'S A PERCENTAGE.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE RECLAIMED THIS PURPLE PIPES EVERYWHERE, BUT IT EVERYWHERE IN MELBOURNE.
SO I MEAN, EVERY ROAD PROJECT, IT GOES IN FOR IRRIGATION AND THE LANDSCAPING AND.
EXACTLY. YEAH, WE HAVE NO IRRIGATION IN OUR AREA.
SO WHAT ARE THE WHAT ARE THE ALTERNATIVES TO THE DEEP WELL INJECTION? JUST IT WOULD BE IRRIGATION.
AND I THINK THE UPGRADING OF THEIR SYSTEM TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY.
MAYBE, MAYBE MOVING TOWARDS THAT.
SO IN IN A WAY, I THINK CHRIS MIGHT BE ABLE TO DEFEND HIMSELF.
THE UTILITIES DIRECTOR MIGHT BE ABLE TO DEFEND HIMSELF A LITTLE BIT BY SAYING, YOU KNOW, OK, YEP, WE'RE WE'RE IMPROVING OUR RECLAIMED QUALITY AND THAT IS SO THAT WE CAN USE IT, YOU KNOW, AND AND IT'S NOT FILLED WITH NUTRIENTS AND OTHER STUFF.
ISN'T THAT UPGRADE FUNDED FROM SORREL? SO SORREL DOES PROVIDE FUNDING FOR SEPTIC TO SEWER, THE SEPTIC TO SEWER PROGRAM, I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY PROVIDE FUNDING FOR RECLAIMED.
THEY THEY DO FUND SEPTIC TO SEWER.
AND YEARS AGO, THE UTILITY IS AND I THINK IT WAS IN 17 UTILITIES DEPARTMENT TO DO A STUDY OF SEPTIC TO SEWER BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, MOST OF PALM BAY IS ON SEPTIC.
AND THE STUDY LOOKED AT THE COST AND AND IT LOOKED AT EVEN JUST THE COST OF CONNECTING SO LOW HANGING FRUIT, JUST THE COST OF CONNECTING TO EXISTING GRAVITY AND FORCE MEANS.
AND EVEN EVEN THAT IS IS IS PRETTY EXPENSIVE.
I THINK IT WAS ON THE ORDER OF 10 OR TEN OR TWELVE THOUSAND FOR A SINGLE CONNECTION.
AND THAT'S THE LOW HANGING FRUIT.
AND THEN PUTTING IN, YOU KNOW, GOING SEPTIC TO SEWER IS EVEN MORE EXPENSIVE.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S ALL HAD THE FUNDING, BUT THIS TURKEY CREEK FEASIBILITY STUDY IS ALSO LOOKING AGAIN AT THAT FOR GRANT FUNDING.
SO MAYBE THERE WILL BE OTHER SOURCES GOING FORWARD.
YEAH, I'M PRETTY SURE SORREL IS FUNDING YOUR WASTEWATER UPGRADE.
SO, OH, THE WASTEWATER UPGRADE TO THE PLANT? YES. YEAH.
SO ONE OTHER THING IS MORE OF AN OBSERVATION YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M CORRECT ON THIS. MAYBE SOMEBODY KNOWS OTHERWISE.
THE OTHER DAY, THERE WAS AN ARTICLE IN THE PAPER THAT GOV.
DESANTIS STOPPED BY HERE BREVARD COUNTY AND DROPPED OFF $53 MILLION FOR THE INDIAN RIVER LAGOON. YEAH, AND LOOKING THROUGH THE FUNDING, THE PROJECTS THAT WERE FUNDED WITH THAT $53 MILLION.
I DIDN'T SEE THE WORDS PALM BAY ANYWAY.
I DON'T I DON'T BELIEVE PALM BAY IS IN THAT.
I THINK SOME OF IT DID GO TO SEOUL.
AND SO BY THAT TOKEN, WE CAN APPLY FOR THAT MONEY.
AND THEN ONE MORE THING, WHILE WE'RE ON THE TOPIC OF WATER QUALITY AND STUFF IS I'VE DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH ON SWALES, AS FAR I CAN TELL YOU.
AND THE THING IS EVERYBODY HAS ONE, BUT VERY FEW ARE AWARE HOW THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO WORK AND WHY THEY'RE THERE, RIGHT? WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF EDUCATING PEOPLE ON WHY THE SOILS ARE THERE AND HOW THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO WORK. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU. THAT IS GOING FORWARD.
THE PUBLIC EDUCATION WILL BE THERE.
I I ACTUALLY HAVE WRITTEN AN ARTICLE, BUT THE MAYBE THE DISTRIBUTION HASN'T GOTTEN ALL THE WAY AROUND. AND WE ALSO HAVE OUR STORMWATER WATER QUALITY SECTION OF OUR WEBSITE
[01:00:02]
THAT WE WILL UPDATE WITH MORE EDUCATIONAL ARTICLES LIKE THAT.YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE SWALE DOES.
THIS IS HOW IT DOES IT, YOU KNOW, AS.
WELL, THAT'S THE WATER I SAW IN THE PAPER.
IT WAS THE LAST COUNCIL MEETING, I THINK IT WAS THE SEPTEMBER 16TH COUNCIL MEETING.
COUNCIL MEMBER FOSTER WENT AND ATTENDED A TEPO MEETING AND HAD A PRESENTATION ON THE BABCOCK STREET.
IT WAS A I THINK THERE'S A STUDY GOING ON A ROAD IMPROVEMENT STUDY.
THIS IS A NORTHERN BABCOCK, WHICH IS BETWEEN PALM BAY ROAD AND 192 BY FIT.
THEY'RE DOING A CORRIDOR STUDY THAT LOOKS AT IMPROVEMENTS.
A LOT OF THE IMPROVEMENTS IS BECAUSE OF THE COLLEGE THERE, SO THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE MOBILITY IMPROVEMENTS AND WIDENING IMPROVEMENTS WITHIN THOSE IMPROVEMENTS.
THEY THEY LOOKED AT THREE ROUNDABOUTS.
AND THAT DISCUSSION, THE CITY OF MELBOURNE DIDN'T HAVE HIGH FEELINGS TOWARDS ROUNDABOUTS LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T, AND SO DID RANDY FOSTER OR COUNCILPERSON.
HE HAD HEARTBURN REGARDING ROUNDABOUTS BECAUSE HE FEELS THAT A CONGESTED CORRIDOR, WHICH I AGREE WITH HIM ON SOME OF THESE MAJOR CONGESTION CORRIDOR ROUNDABOUTS MAY NOT BE THE BEST IDEA. AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, OUR CITY MANAGER CHIMED IN BY SAYING, OH, BY THE WAY, OUR SOUTH BABCOCK PYRENEES STUDY, WHICH IS THE SECTION FOUR MALABAR ROAD, ALL IT DOES.
ST JOHN'S HERITAGE PARKWAY HAS 11 INTERSECTIONS OF THE 11 INTERSECTIONS.
NINE OF THOSE ARE IDENTIFIED TO BE ROUNDABOUTS.
SO NOW WE'RE GOING TO BE THE ROUNDABOUT ROAD OF BABCOCK.
BASED ON THAT, COUNCIL HAD A DISCUSSION THAT THEY WERE IN VERY OPPOSITION OF HAVING THESE ROUNDABOUTS BECAUSE THEY FELT THAT THERE'S A SAFETY CONCERN ISSUE AND A CAPACITY CONSTRAINT ISSUE. THEY FEEL THAT SOMETIMES THESE ROUNDABOUTS ARE NOT THE BEST USE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THEM.
PEOPLE ARE SOMETIMES IN SOME WAYS CHALLENGED, AND IN MY SLEEP STANDPOINT, THEY'RE NOT THE SAFEST, MAINLY FOR PEDESTRIANS AND BECAUSE OF THOSE CONCERNS.
THE CITY WROTE A LETTER PREPARING TO WRITE A LETTER TO FDR, SAYING THE OBJECT THESE ROUNDABOUTS IN THESE TWO STUDIES, THAT'S WHAT CAME OUT OF THE MEETING OF THE ROUNDABOUTS.
HE IS MOVING IN THE DIRECTION OF ROUNDABOUTS.
YOU KNOW, IT'S IT'S WHAT'S REQUIRED IS UNDER THESE FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS.
THIS IS HOW ROUNDABOUTS ARE BEING KIND OF LIKE BEING NOT FORCED BUT BEING LOOKED AT BECAUSE UNDER THE FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS, YOU NEED TO LOOK AT ALL OPTIONS.
THAT INCLUDES A NO BILL THAT INCLUDES A ROUNDABOUT.
WHY ROUNDABOUTS ARE BEING USED EVERYWHERE IN OTHER COUNTRIES, BUT IN OTHER COUNTRIES, THEY DON'T HAVE THE, I DON'T BELIEVE, THE STYLE OF AGGRESSIVE DRIVING IN THE STYLE OF CONGESTION WE HAVE. AND SOME OF THOSE CORRIDORS ARE NOT AS HEAVILY USED AS OUR CORRIDORS.
I MEAN, SO THERE'S A DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF THAT CONGESTION RATIO.
AND AS MUCH AS PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEMS HERE, THINK ABOUT CONGESTION AND TRAFFIC.
TOTALLY DIFFERENT WHEN YOU COME FROM L.A.
OR FROM TEXAS OR FROM DALLAS AND FROM SOME OF THE LARGER URBANIZED AREAS, THERE'S A HUGE ISSUE WHERE YOU TRY TO STICK A ROUNDABOUT AND SOME OF THOSE.
IT DOESN'T WORK AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE HIGHWAY IN THAT LANE INTERSECTION THAT YOU KNOW IT TELLS YOU TO. A TRAFFIC SIGNAL BASICALLY IS THERE TO CONTROL CONFLICT.
IT'S TRULY WORLD MEANT TO BE AROUND, BUT DOESN'T DO THAT.
AND I SEE CONCERNS BECAUSE OF THOSE ISSUES AND BECAUSE OF THE WAY PEOPLE ARE USED TO DRIVING. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT COUNCIL MEMBER FOSTER HAD.
AND BECAUSE HE'S, YOU KNOW, HE'S SEEN THAT HIMSELF BECAUSE HE DRIVES THAT ROAD, BABCOCK.
AND WHEN I HEARD THE SAME THING, WHEN I WAS AT THE MEETINGS ON THE PD STUDY, WHEN THEY SAY NINE OUT OF THE 11 INTERSECTIONS, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE, OH MY GOSH, I MEAN, I COULD SEE ONE OR TWO, BUT NEITHER.
I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S AND THESE ARE THE STUDIES, YOU GUYS.
THESE ARE PRELIMINARY STUDIES.
THEY COME UP WITH A PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE.
WHETHER THAT PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE BECOMES A FINAL DESIGN WOULD BE BASED ON MORE PUBLIC COMMENTS, MORE REVIEW AND FINAL DESIGN.
SO THERE'S STILL GOING TO BE OPPORTUNITIES, BUT I THINK OUR COUNCIL JUST HAD JUST HAD SOME REALLY CONCERNS ABOUT IT.
SO YOUR KNOWLEDGE IS, ARE THERE ANY FINDINGS THAT ROUNDABOUTS ARE ANY SAFER OR I? THE ONLY REASON WHY ROUNDABOUTS ARE CONSIDERED SAFER BECAUSE THERE ARE NO CONFLICT POINTS, BECAUSE YOU DON'T CRISS THE TRAFFIC WITH THE LEAFS AND THROUGHS.
HOWEVER, THERE IS A DIVERSION POINT WHERE WHEN YOUR DIVERSION THE CAR IS TO REFLECT AROUND THE ROUNDABOUTS, THERE'S NO PLACE FOR PEDESTRIANS TO CROSS.
SO FROM A PURE MOBILITY STANDPOINT, I DON'T AGREE WITH PUSHING THE PEDESTRIANS TO THE FAR ENDS OF THESE DIVERSION POINTS, WHERE THEY'RE A LITTLE BIT SAFER TO CROSS PEDESTRIANS LIKE THE CROSS WHERE THEY WANT TO CROSS.
PEOPLE WANT TO CROSS THE SHORTEST DISTANCE BETWEEN ANY TWO POINTS, AND SO IT BECOMES A CHALLENGE WHEN THEY GET CLOSE TO THE ROUNDABOUT AND THEY TRY TO MAKE THAT CROSS.
WHEN YOU HAVE THESE FREE FLOWING RIDES COMING AT YOU AND THEY'RE NOT EXPECTING TO SEE A PEDESTRIAN BECAUSE THEY CONSIDER THIS TO BE A FREE FLOWING ROUNDABOUT, AND THAT'S THAT'S WHY I HAVE A HARDEST CONCERN, BECAUSE I THINK INTERSECTIONS SHOULD BE THE SAFEST POINT, MAINLY FOR PEDESTRIANS.
IT JUST MADE FOR EVERYBODY PEDESTRIANS, BICYCLISTS AND THE VEHICLES.
[01:05:03]
THAT'S MY ONLY CONCERN FROM A TRAFFIC ENGINEERING STANDPOINT.I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE TRAFFIC ENGINEERING FEEL HAVE REAL CONCERNS WITH ROUNDABOUTS.
I THINK THEY DO VERY WELL IN THE EUROPEAN AND OTHER COUNTRIES.
BUT HERE, BECAUSE WE'RE USED TO HAVING THAT FORCE STOP AND SIGNAL, I THINK WE STILL NEED TO HAVE THAT FOR STOP AND SIGNAL TO PROTECT PEDESTRIANS.
RIGHT. THE ISSUE OF BRIDGE CROSSES, TOO, I MEAN, THEY'RE GREAT IF YOU'RE GOING FROM ONE SECOND STORY TO ANOTHER SECOND STORY.
IF YOU GO ON FROM SOME PLATEAU TO ANOTHER PLATEAU, IF YOU GO IN AN AREA THAT HAS ALL INTERCONNECTED SECOND STORIES, YOU KNOW, I'M SAYING YOU COULD DROP DOWN, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE TO CLIMB UP AND CLIMB BACK DOWN.
NOBODY WANTS TO DO THAT. IT'S BEEN PROVEN AGAIN AND AGAIN.
THEY GO FROM THE SHORTEST PATH, THE SHORTEST DISTANCE.
NO, BECAUSE I'VE DONE PEDESTRIAN STUDIES THAT THE AVERAGE PERSON IN A IN A COMMERCIAL AREA, THE DISTANCE FIVE TO SIX HUNDRED FEET.
AFTER THAT, THEY START LOOKING AT OTHER OPTIONS.
SO THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE TO HAVE IN LARGE URBANIZED AREAS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LOT MORE SMALLER PARKING GARAGE AT THAT ANGLE PARK AND YOU HAVE THE STREET PARKING ONLY YOU HAVE TO GO SHORT FIVE HUNDRED FEET.
IT'S NOT THAT FAR. MOST CITY BLOCKS ARE THOUSAND, SO YOU'RE ONLY GOING HALF WAY.
I DON'T THINK IT WAS REAL PEDESTRIAN LIKE YOU'RE THINKING, THOUGH I THINK IT WAS ELEVATED CROSSWALKS THAT ARE ABOVE THE GRADE OF THE ROAD TO RAISE THE PEDESTRIAN ABOVE.
LIKE THAT LINE AND ANYTHING YOU STILL HAVE TO CLIMB UP, CLIMB BACK DOWN.
IT'S PEDESTRIAN. IT'S MORE SAFER TO HAVE THEM.
IF YOU'VE GOT TO DO A CROSSING, PUT A SIGNAL IN, NOT THE REFLECTIVE FLASHING BEACONS OF PUT A FULL SIGNAL IN. IF YOU REALLY ARE SHORT ON FUNDING DOGLEG, THAT'S THE PEDESTRIAN.
SO WHEN THEY GET TO THE MEDIAN, THERE'S A MEDIAN.
A SAFE ZONE HAVE THEM CUT ACROSS ON THE SIDE.
AND SO YOU CAN'T COME ALL THE WAY ACROSS.
YOU HAVE TO DO A ZIGZAG THAT'S A PEDESTRIAN STOP IN THE MEET, IN A SAFE ZONE.
WE JUDGE HIS DETERMINATION WHETHER HE CAN MAKE IT ACROSS WITH THE NEXT APPROACH AND THEN CROSS AGAIN. THE TRULY CROSSING THE FULL INTERSECTION, MAINLY THE FOUR LANES AND SIX LANES, IT BECOMES A CHALLENGE.
BUT MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE PULLING IN MID BLOCK CROSSWALKS.
WHY? BECAUSE PEOPLE CROSS THEM ANYWAY.
SO IF YOU DO HAVE A SITUATION, YOU'VE GOT TO TRY TO MAKE IT AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE.
I'LL ADJOURN THE MEETING AT EIGHT, EIGHT P.M..
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.