[00:00:05]
[ CALL TO ORDER]
REGULAR CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION MEETING TUESDAY, MARCH 29.WHEN TO CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER.
THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE WILL BE DONE BY K POLICE RICE.
I'M NOT SURE OFFICIALLY HOW SHE STARTS, BUT I'LL JUST GIVE IT A TRY.
GO DOWN THE LIST. WILLIAM CAPOTE.
[PUBLIC COMMENTS]
WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS ON NON AGENDA ITEMS. TOM.I'D LIKE TO CALL YOUR ATTENTION TO THE FIRST SIX WORDS OF THE CITY CHARTER PREAMBLE.
WE, THE CITIZENS OF THIS CITY.
THOSE SIX WORDS SHOW OWNERSHIP.
WE, THE CITIZENS OF THIS CITY.
WE, THE CITIZENS OF THIS CITY, GOVERN THOSE WHO WE ENTRUST TO GOVERN OUR CITY WITH THIS DOCUMENT. THIS SHOULD BE ABOUT THE CHANGES THAT WE, THE CITIZENS OF THIS CITY WOULD LIKE TO SEE COME TO PASS.
FOR INSTANCE, IN EXCHANGE FOR A RAISE IN PAY FOR COUNCIL MEMBERS, HAVE YOU CONSIDERED TIGHTENING THEIR WORKLOAD AND ADDING TWO ADDITIONAL COUNCIL SEATS? HAVE YOU CONSIDERED HAVING DISTRICTS THAT CERTIFY THAT LARGE SEATS? GIVING WE, THE CITIZENS OF THIS CITY MORE REPRESENTATION AND MORE EVENLY DISTRIBUTED REPRESENTATION THROUGHOUT OUR VAST CITY.
WITH THE CITIZENS OF THIS CITY KNOW FROM PRIOR EXPERIENCE THAT OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE BEEN TARGETED FOR CORRUPTION.
AND HE'D ONLY POINT TO THE CONVICTIONS OF PRIOR DEPUTY CITY MANAGERS AND ALREADY MR. AGUILAR IN THE ARREST AND PENDING TRIAL OF MR. WEST. ISN'T IT LOGICAL THAT IT'S MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO CORRUPT FOUR OUT OF SEVEN PEOPLE THAN IT IS TO CORRUPT THREE OUT OF FIVE? HAVE YOU CONSIDERED CHANGING THE ELECTION PROCESS, DISCARDING THE PRIMARY AS BOTH A COST SAVING MEASURE TO THE CITY, AND TO ALSO MINIMIZE THE CONFUSION AMONG THE VOTERS? THIS WAS PARTICULARLY TRUE LAST ELECTION WHEN ONE SEAT HAD A PRIMARY AND THE OTHER DID NOT. HAVE YOU CONSIDERED CHARTER CHANGES THAT WOULD PROTECT OUR CITY INFRASTRUCTURE FROM YEARS OF NEGLECT? WE ARE JUST NOW STARTING TO RECOVER FROM 50 YEARS OF NEGLECT TO OUR INFRASTRUCTURE.
WE'RE USING OUR ROAD BOND PROGRAM AND OUR STORMWATER IMPROVEMENTS WE HAVE MADE.
WE HAVE MADE GREAT STRIDES SIMPLY BECAUSE WE, THE CITIZENS OF THIS CITY, VOTED TO DO SO.
IT WOULD BE SHAMEFUL AND FOOLISH TO ALLOW WHAT WE, THE CITIZENS OF THIS CITY, HAVE DONE TO FALL IN SUCH DISREPAIR IN THE FUTURE.
I'LL LEAVE YOU WITH ONE MORE QUESTION.
WHAT WILL THIS GROUP DO TO REPRESENT THE BEST INTERESTS OF WE, THE CITIZENS OF THIS CITY? THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK ABOUT NON AGENDA ITEMS? NONE. WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO NEED A MOTION TO ADOPT THE MINUTES IF THERE ARE NOT ANY
[ADOPTION OF MINUTES]
CHANGES. MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT THE MINUTES.SECOND BY COMMISSIONER CHANDLER.
ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MINUTES COMMISSION? IF NOT, I'M GOING TO CALL IT ALL IN FAVOR.
OKAY. THE REPORTS ARE SELF EXPLANATORY JUST FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSE.
[REPORTS]
AND WE HAVE ONE NEW BUSINESS ITEM DISCUSSION OF INSPECTOR GENERAL INTERNAL AUDITOR[NEW BUSINESS]
POSITION AS AN APPOINTED CHARTERED OFFICER.[00:05:01]
A LOT OF INFORMATION HERE.I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO SUZANNE.
THANK YOU. SOUNDS KIND OF CRUNCHY.
CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY? I'M STILL CRUNCHING. ALL RIGHT, GOOD ENOUGH.
SO, UH, THIS PARTICULAR ITEM IS.
SO THIS PARTICULAR ITEM WAS REQUESTED BY DEPUTY MAYOR KENNY JOHNSON.
YOU CAN SEE BEFORE YOU, IT'S A.
REQUEST TO CONSIDER ESSENTIALLY AN ADDITIONAL CHARTER OFFICER POSITION.
THE TITLES CAN BE PERHAPS INTERCHANGEABLE, BUT YOU SEE IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET WE REFER TO LIKE AN INSPECTOR GENERAL OR AN INTERNAL AUDITOR TYPE POSITION.
WHAT'S IN THE PACKET FOR YOUR REVIEW AND FOR THE PUBLIC REVIEW IS A VARIETY OF EXAMPLES OF HOW OTHER CITIES AND GOVERNMENTS HAVE CREATED THOSE TYPES OF POSITIONS.
YOU'LL ALSO SEE THERE'S SOME NUANCES TO IT, BUT ESSENTIALLY THE WAY THEY ARE DEVELOPED IS TO BE. ESSENTIALLY A PERSON, OR IT COULD BE AN ENTIRE OFFICE THAT DEVELOPS OVER TIME.
BUT IT LOOKS AT THE THE CITY'S OPERATIONS AND INFRASTRUCTURE FROM A PERSPECTIVE OF HOW DO WE AVOID THINGS LIKE FRAUD AND WASTE AND ABUSE.
UM, AND WE ACTUALLY ALREADY HAVE SOME PROCESSES IN INTERNAL THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY COUNCIL OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS.
SO WE HAVE ORDINANCES THAT ESTABLISH OUR CURRENT.
BUT ESSENTIALLY WHAT THIS WOULD DO IS IT WOULD HAVE SOMEBODY WHO.
THEORETICALLY WOULD BE COMPLETELY OBJECTIVE, SEPARATE FROM CITY MANAGER, CITY ATTORNEY AND CITY CLERK'S OFFICE AND WOULD REPORT DIRECTLY TO THE COUNCIL.
SO DEPUTY MAYOR ASKS US TO BRING THAT TO YOU.
SO THAT'S WHAT'S IN YOUR IN YOUR PACKET.
ALSO, THIS WAS REVIEWED PREVIOUSLY WHEN FORMER COUNCILMAN JEFF BAILEY HAD REQUESTED THIS DISCUSSION AS WELL.
SO THAT'S SOME OF THE HISTORY OF WHAT'S IN YOUR PACKET AND THAT'S REALLY IT FOR YOUR DISCUSSION PURPOSES.
WE'RE GOING TO DO THE CITIZENS FIRST, IF ANYBODY WANTS TO SPEAK.
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WISH TO ADDRESS THIS ITEM? WELL.
GILBERT IN 586 OCEAN SPRAY STREET SOUTHWEST.
A CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER SLASH INSPECTOR GENERAL TO INVESTIGATE ETHICS.
THE CITY COUNCIL ALREADY HAS A RESPONSIBILITY.
THIS ACTION WOULD TAKE THE MONKEY OFF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PUT THAT ON ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL TO TO RELIEVE THE CITY COUNCIL OF THAT ACCOUNTABILITY.
MY OPINION, THAT'S A BAD MOVE.
NOW FOR THE FINANCE SIDE OF IT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE THE POSITION PAID FOR.
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE THE STAFF STAFF PAID FOR.
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A PENSION PLAN SET UP FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE WORKING. AND NO ONE, SINCE THIS IS A CHARTER MEMBER, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A GOLDEN NOT A CHARTER MEMBER AND A.
CAN'T REMEMBER THE TERM FOR THE MEMBER WILL BE A GOLDEN PARACHUTE ALSO.
THEY HAVE THOSE WRITTEN IN THEIR CONTRACTS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT JUST STANDARD EMPLOYEES.
THEY GET RIGHT TO MAKE THEIR CONTRACTS SO YOU'D HAVE A GOLDEN PARACHUTE AND YOU'LL HAVE TO COME UP WITH THE FACILITIES FOR THIS INDIVIDUAL.
SO BATONS POINT OF VIEW IS FOCUS ON LESS GOVERNMENT, NOT MORE GOVERNMENT.
THERE ALREADY IS A MECHANISM TO COVER THIS.
THE CITY ATTORNEY, THE CITY CLERK, AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE CITY COUNCIL TO COVER ALL OF THESE ALREADY FUNCTIONING WITHIN OUR GOVERNMENT.
REMEMBER, THE RESULT IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PERSON PERFORMING THE TASK.
MORE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN A BETTER GOVERNMENT.
IS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WISHED TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM?
[00:10:04]
LAURIE LAFAVE. 1211.TO ALL THE CIRCLE, I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I'M NOT FOR THIS ITEM EITHER.
I WILL CLOSE A PUBLIC HEARING AND BRING IT BACK TO THE.
TESTING. ALL RIGHT, IT'S BETTER.
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I SENT THE CITY CLERK AN EMAIL EARLIER TODAY ASKING JUST FOR SOME CONTEXT, RELATIVE TO THE MINUTES FROM THE 2019 MEETING WHEN MR. BAILEY BROUGHT THIS UP, JUST SO I CAN LOOK AT IT FROM A CONTEXTUAL STANDPOINT TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS PROPOSING AND WHY HE WAS PROPOSING IT.
I'M PRETTY SURE I HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHY.
BUT ALSO, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO HAVE DEPUTY MAYOR JOHNSON POTENTIALLY COME TO THE NEXT MEETING AND SPEAK ON THIS ITEM, SINCE HE'S THE ONE PROPOSING IT.
JUST TO PROVIDE SOME CONTEXT TO IT, BECAUSE WE JUST RECEIVED THE INFORMATION RELATIVE TO DIFFERENT POSITIONS. INTERNAL AUDITOR ONE INTERNAL AUDITOR TWO REFERENCE TO SOME CODE OF ORDINANCES FROM DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITIES, BUT WOULD LIKE FOR HIM TO COME AND SPEAK ON THIS ITEM POTENTIALLY.
FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I AGREE WITH BILL THE THE EARNEST OF THE RESPONSIBILITY FALLS ON COUNCIL. THAT'S HOW I'VE ALWAYS SAW IT, EVEN WHEN, UM, COUNCILMAN BAILEY BROUGHT IT UP.
THE EARNEST OF THIS FALLS ON THE RESPONSIBILITY OF COUNCIL.
AND JUST TO GIVE YOU A TAD BIT THAT SOMETIMES PEOPLE FALL OFF THE WAGON IN THE SENSE THAT NOT EVERY GOVERNMENT IS PERFECT AND PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES.
YOU COULD SEE IN TODAY'S NEWS OR YESTERDAY, WHICHEVER WAY YOU WANT TO CALL IT, WHERE COMMISSIONER LOEB RESIGNED FROM HIS POSITION FOR.
THE ACCUSATION IS MISTREATMENT OF THE CARD.
SO. WE DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN.
THAT'S NOT SOMETHING WE CONDONE.
AND THE RESPONSIBILITY IN EARNEST OF TAKING ACTION FALLS ON THE ELECTED BODY.
JUST LIKE THE COMMISSIONERS DID THE COMMISSIONERS DID AT AT THE COUNTY COMMISSION.
THEY TOOK THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT AN AUDIT IS NEEDED, EVEN THOUGH THEY HE RESIGNED, THE AUDIT IS STILL MOVING FORWARD BECAUSE YOU NEED TO FIND OUT EXACTLY WHAT HAS TRANSPIRED.
WITH THAT. OPEN IT UP TO ANY OTHER COMMISSIONER THAT WISHES TO SPEAK.
DID YOU FINISH? AND I THINK YOU RAISED A PRETTY VALID POINT HERE BECAUSE THE AUDIT THAT THE COUNTY COMMISSION CONDUCTED, THEY ALLOWED THE CLERK OF COURTS, MRS. ADOLPH, TO DO IT. SO IN THIS CASE, IF AN AUDIT NEED TO BE DONE FOR THE MISAPPROPRIATION OF FUNDS, WHO WOULD ACTUALLY DO THAT AUDIT? I MEAN, IS THAT IT LEFT UP TO THE DISCRETION OF COUNSEL TO CHOOSE AN OUTSIDE AUDIT FIRM OR CORRECT THAT COUNSEL? COUNSEL WOULD DECIDE IT WILL COME.
THE CHARTER OFFICERS WOULD BRING IT TO OUR ATTENTION, AND THEN WE WOULD MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION. AND IT WOULD BE A SIMPLE MAJORITY.
THREE, TWO, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE FIVE ZERO.
AND YOU MOVE ON TO DO THE AUDIT, AND THAT'S BASICALLY ALL THAT IT TAKES.
AND LET ME ASK ANOTHER QUESTION.
I KNOW THAT MUNICIPALITIES NOW HAVE REALLY BEEN SUBJECT TO LIKE AUDITS AS THAT DONE YEARLY, ANNUALLY.
NO JAIL LIKE IS SOMETHING THAT IS BROUGHT ABOUT BY THE STATE.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S COMMON.
IT'S BECOME IT BECAME NOW HAS BECOME COMICAL BECAUSE CERTAIN CERTAIN ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE USED THAT AS A SCARE TACTIC.
TO MAKE ELECTED OFFICIALS SUBMISSIVE TO THEIR WILL.
YOU HAVE. YOU UNDERSTAND VERY WELL THAT THERE'S A POWER STRUGGLE, POLITICAL POWER STRUGGLE IN BREVARD COUNTY AND CERTAIN POLITICIANS.
THROW THEIR WEIGHT AROUND AND IF YOU HAVE WEAK KNEES, YOU'RE GOING TO BE SUBMISSIVE TO THAT. THAT'S THE WAY I SEE IT.
AND IF YOU HAVE WEAKNESS, DON'T BE IN THIS BUSINESS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME AT YOU FROM ALL DIRECTIONS TO TRY TO TIP YOU OVER AND SCARE TACTICS A UTILIZE ALL THE TIME IN ORDER TO MAKE CERTAIN POLITICIANS SUBMISSIVE TO THOSE ATTACKS.
SO AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK THAT IF YOU IF YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE IN WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT YOUR JOB ENTAILS AND YOU READ THE MATERIAL AND YOU COME PREPARED TO THE MEETINGS, THERE IS NO THERE'S NO QUESTIONS TO WHAT?
[00:15:02]
DECISIONS YOU SHOULD BE MAKING.FOR INFORMATION SAKE ISN'T DOESN'T THE CITY AT THE END OF THE YEAR HAVE TO PRESENT THEIR BOOKS TO AN OUTSIDE FOR REVIEW ANYWAY, CORRECT? YES. SO WE HAVE REALLY? YEAH, WE DO. I MEAN, NOW I COULD SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE.
SO YES, THAT'S A YEARLY AUDIT THAT THE CITY GOES THROUGH.
AND WHEN THAT AUDIT IS DONE, IT TELLS YOU THAT THAT YOU HAVE CERTAIN DISCREPANCIES AND THAT YOU NEED TO COME UP TO DATE.
THE J LACK INVESTIGATION WAS MORE POLITICAL PLOY THAN IT WAS AN ACTUAL BECAUSE IT WAS AN ADMINISTRATIVE AUDIT.
THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE CLOCK.
IT REALLY WAS NOT A REFLECTION ON COUNCIL.
IT WAS A REFLECTION ON THE ADMINISTRATION ITSELF.
BUT IT WAS TWISTED TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT WAS COUNCIL MAKING THE MISTAKES.
THE CLERK WAS AN ADMINISTRATIVE AUDIT AND IT WAS ALL ABOUT ADMINISTRATIVELY CORRECTING CERTAIN THINGS. AND I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S 467, 465 CITIES IN IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, 67 COUNTIES, I CAN SAY THIS VERBATIM.
SO AT THE END OF THE DAY, I WOULD I COULD GUARANTEE YOU IF JAY, LIKE, WALKED IN EVERY CITY IN FLORIDA, THEY WOULD FIND SOMETHING WRONG.
THERE'S GOING TO BE MISTAKES BEING MADE.
AND ALL OF THIS IS A CORRECTIVE ACTION.
I'M ALWAYS CONCERNED WHEN IT IS PERCEIVED.
THAT THERE'S A NEED FOR FINANCIAL SCRUTINY.
I KNOW THERE'S AN ANNUAL AUDIT.
AND THIS IS DIRECTED TO THE CITY ATTORNEY.
ARE THERE ANY SPECIAL DIRECTIVES IN THE CHARTER WHICH SETS FORTH HOW COUNSEL MAY GO ABOUT REQUESTING AN AUDIT? WHAT CONDITIONS WOULD HAVE TO ARISE? OR DOES COUNSEL HAVE THAT INHERENT POWER TO REQUEST AN AUDIT ANY TIME THEY SO DESIRE? YES. I MEAN, COUNCIL CAN CERTAINLY COUNCIL AS IN THE MAJORITY OF COUNCIL CAN REQUEST AN AUDIT AT ANY TIME.
THE COUNCIL ALSO HAS THE APPROPRIATION POWER AS FAR AS TO MAKE TO MOVE MONEY TO CONTROL THE AUDIT. THEY CAN DECIDE IF THE AUDITOR REPORTS TO DESIGNATE ONE MEMBER OF COUNCIL THAT THE AUDITOR WOULD REPORT TO AS FAR AS TO FACILITATE INFORMATION AS OPPOSED.
OR THEY COULD DESIGNATE A STAFF MEMBER.
COUNCIL HAS ALL THOSE POWERS AND I ONLY SAY DESIGNATE ONE BECAUSE OF COURSE COUNCIL CAN'T TALK, BUT AT COUNCIL MEETINGS.
SO IF THERE WAS CERTAIN TIMES WHEN YOU HAVE COUNCIL WORKING WITH A CONSULTANT OR WORKING ON SOME TYPE OF OTHER ISSUE, THEY MAY DESIGNATE A PARTY SO THAT THE INDIVIDUAL HAS A PERSON FOR A COUNCIL TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO.
A LOT OF TIMES IT'S YOU KNOW, IT MAY BE THE MAYOR.
BECAUSE OF THE POSITION OR IF IT'S SOMETHING WHERE CERTAIN PEOPLE HAVE SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE, THEY MAY BE, BUT COUNSEL HAS THE ABILITY TO DO THAT REGARDLESS.
MY SECOND QUESTION IS AND I'M MORE IN AGREEMENT WITH JORDAN.
THE NEED FOR THE NEED FOR AN INDEPENDENT AUDITOR.
I THINK IT BEHOOVES US TO HEAR FROM HIM AS TO WHAT OUR IS.
REASONS FOR QUESTION SAYING BECAUSE HE MAY HAVE INFORMATION THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT WOULD LEAD US TO CONSIDER THE NECESSITY OF THIS TYPE OF POSITION.
I DON'T KNOW IF HE WISHES IT TO BE PERMANENT OR HE WANTS TO REITERATE THE COUNCIL'S RIGHT TO HAVE ONE. BUT THERE MAY BE SOMETHING BEHIND HIS REQUEST THAT WE NEED TO CONSIDER BEFORE WE. YOU KNOW WHAT I WANT TO ANSWER, BECAUSE IT'S NOT TEMPORARY.
THE POSITION WILL BE ONCE IT GOES OUT, ONCE IT GOES OUT BY REFERENDUM AND IS VOTED BY THE PEOPLE. THE ONLY WAY IT COULD BE REMOVED IS BY THE PEOPLE.
SO THAT'S AN I UNDERSTAND FROM JORDAN'S POSITION OF WANTING MORE INFORMATION.
I'M JUST GIVING YOU MY OPINION BECAUSE I SET UP THERE AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT I'M NOT THE TYPE OF PERSON THAT I LIKE TO PUT MY RESPONSIBILITIES ON SOMEBODY ELSE.
MY RESPONSIBILITY, WHETHER I'M RIGHT OR WRONG, I'M GOING TO LIVE WITH THE DECISION I
[00:20:02]
MAKE. I'VE ALWAYS SAID WHEN I SAT ON THAT COUNCIL AND THAT DIOCESE THAT I COULD GO HOME AND SLEEP EVERY NIGHT BECAUSE WHETHER YOU'RE GOING TO CRITICIZE ME OR NOT, THAT'S IRRELEVANT. I'M GOING TO MAKE MY DECISION AND I'LL TAKE THE CRITICISM THAT COMES WITH IT.SO WHEN I SAW THIS, I SAW CFO SLASH.
INTERNAL AUDITOR. I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT IT SAID.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, I LOOK AT THINGS FROM A BUSINESS BACKGROUND.
I THINK ABOUT WHAT A CFO DOES BESIDES JUST AUDIT.
AND I GUESS THAT WAS MY QUESTION.
SOMETHING ELSE THAT THIS POSITION WOULD BE DOING THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY MISSING.
AND I'M NOT SURE IF SHERMAN, IF YOU WOULD HAVE THAT INFORMATION OR IF THAT IS.
MR. JOHNSON THAT WOULD HAVE THAT INFORMATION, BECAUSE THAT THAT TO ME IS.
NO, I MEAN. I LET SUZANNE I KNOW THE ANSWER SO WELL.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT AND SUZANNE ALLUDED TO IT EARLIER IS THAT COUNCIL CREATED BY ORDINANCE WAS A FRAUD INVESTIGATION COMMITTEE AND WHICH WE HAVE TWEAKED OVER TIME, AS WELL AS OUR WHISTLEBLOWER PROVISIONS AS FAR AS MAKING IT EASIER ONLINE.
SO WE ACTUALLY HAVE A COMMITTEE THAT IS MADE UP OF THE.
CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW, THE CHIEF PROCUREMENT OFFICER, THE FINANCE DIRECTOR, HR DIRECTOR, THE CITY CLERK LEADS THE COMMITTEE.
I'M PRESENT THERE TO PROVIDE ADVICE.
EMPLOYEES CAN MAKE COMPLAINTS THAT GO TO THE AUDIT COMMITTEE.
RESIDENTS CAN MAKE COMPLAINTS.
THERE IS A SEIZURE IN WHICH THOSE COMPLAINTS ARE THEN INVESTIGATED.
THERE ARE REPORTS MADE TO COUNCIL.
WE TIGHTEN UPON THE WHISTLE BLOWER.
WE MADE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE IF THEY SAW SOMETHING OR HAD CONCERNS TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THOSE CONCERNS TO A GROUP THAT WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR INVESTIGATING THOSE CONCERNS.
SO I THINK AND WE'VE HAD THINGS THAT HAVE COME UP WHERE WE REALIZED, WELL, MAYBE WE CAN CHANGE POLICIES OR PROCEDURES.
SO IT ACTUALLY BETWEEN THE TWO CHANGES, THE FRAUD INVESTIGATION COMMITTEE AND THE CHANGES TO THE WHISTLEBLOWER ORDINANCE, THEY HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN DOING WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO AS FAR AS THEY DO PROVIDE THAT OUTLET FROM THE PEOPLE, RESIDENTS AND EMPLOYEES.
SO THERE HAVE BEEN TWEAKS IN THE COMPOSITION, BUT OVERALL I DON'T KNOW.
MS. SHERMAN I THINK IT'S BEEN IT'S BEEN RATHER EFFECTIVE, I THINK.
AND THE OTHER THING I WOULD ADD IS, UM, SO THE FOCUS OF THAT EXISTING COMMITTEE IS TO LOOK AT INSTANCES OF FRAUD, WASTE, ABUSE, MISUSE OF TAXPAYER FUNDS, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS. UM, CERTAINLY LIKE ANY PROCESS, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME COMPLAINTS THAT HAVE COME IN THAT DON'T BELONG THERE OR PEOPLE WERE JUST TRYING TO GET BACK AT SOMEONE AS AN EXAMPLE.
AND IT WASN'T REALLY IT WASN'T FOUNDED.
I GUESS ESSENTIALLY THERE HAVE BEEN SOME TIMES WHERE IT'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT AWKWARD INTERNALLY FOR STAFF TO SIT ON THE COMMITTEE.
I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE ONE THING THAT'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT CHALLENGING.
BUT BEYOND THAT, TO FURTHER ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, THE OTHER THING THAT YOU COULD DO WITH A POSITION LIKE THIS IS YOU COULD DO ESSENTIALLY.
I WOULD CALL THEM LIKE OPERATIONAL AUDITS WE HAD LAST YEAR BECAUSE OF EVERYTHING THAT CAME OUT OF THE JACK AUDIT AND WE LOOKED AT OUR JUST OVERALL LAY OF THE LAND.
WE DO HAVE AN ANNUAL FINANCIAL AUDIT, JUST LIKE EVERY CITY IS REQUIRED TO.
SO THEY LOOK AT HOW WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING FISCALLY FOR THE MOST PART.
BUT THERE THERE WASN'T LIKE A FORMAL PROCESS AND THERE ISN'T A FORMAL PROCESS TO LOOK AT JUST. HOW ARE YOU RUNNING YOUR PROCESSES, YOUR PROCEDURES TO AVOID SITUATIONS WHERE PEOPLE COULD POTENTIALLY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE CITY, YOU KNOW, INTENTIONALLY OR EVEN ACCIDENTALLY? SO WHAT WE DID LAST YEAR WAS WE HIRED AN OUTSIDE AUDITING FIRM TO DO INTERNAL AUDIT CONTROL REVIEW.
SO THEY LOOKED AT THREE DIFFERENT AREAS.
IN THIS CASE, THAT WAS SOMETHING I WENT TO COUNCIL AND SAID, WOULD YOU PLEASE FUND THIS? AND THEY SAID, YES. AND SO I PICK THREE AREAS OF OUR OPERATIONS AND I ASKED THIS OUTSIDE FIRM TO COME IN AND JUST REVIEW IT.
WHERE ARE OUR WEAK POINTS? WHAT COULD WE STRENGTHEN IN TERMS OF PROCESS, TECHNOLOGY, WHATEVER? AND IT WAS A GREAT REPORT.
THEY LOOKED AT, FOR EXAMPLE, FLEET AND FUEL USE AND THEY LOOKED AT RECREATION, HOW WE MAKE PAYMENTS ON THOSE PROGRAMS AND SOME OTHER AREAS.
AND COUNCIL HAS APPROVED US TO DO THAT AGAIN THIS COMING SUMMER.
SO WE'LL WE'LL DO SOME DIFFERENT AREAS.
THEY GIVE US A REPORT AND THEY SAY STRENGTHENING THESE AREAS.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER AREA I THINK THAT AN INTERNAL AUDITOR POSITION COULD FILL FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, WHERE WE'RE USING THESE OUTSIDE FIRMS TO DO THAT RIGHT NOW AND WE'RE JUST DOING PIECEMEAL SECTIONS OF OF OPERATIONS BECAUSE YOU CAN ONLY FIX SO MUCH, YOU KNOW,
[00:25:04]
WITH THE AMOUNT OF TIME YOU HAVE.THAT'S WHERE MY CURIOSITY LANDED BECAUSE.
IF IT'S JUST FOR THE FISCAL AUDIT AUDIT, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE SOMETHING IN PLAY, BUT IT ALSO SOUNDS LIKE THE AUDIT THAT WE DO IS IN AFTER THE FACT.
IT'S NOT VERY PROACTIVE IF IT'S DONE AT THE END OF THE YEAR.
THE FISCAL AUDIT IS ALWAYS AT THE END OF YOUR FISCAL YEAR, YOU'RE CHECKING THAT YOU FOLLOWED YOUR PROCEDURES AND POLICIES AND SPENT MONEY IN THE RIGHT PLACES, THINGS LIKE THAT. THE OPERATIONAL AUDIT I WAS REFERRING TO THAT WE DID LAST YEAR AND THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO AGAIN THIS YEAR THAT IS THAT IS MORE PROACTIVE.
THAT'S LOOKING AT YOUR INTERNAL CONTROLS AND TRYING TO FIND WAYS WHERE YOU CAN TIGHTEN UP YOUR YOUR YOUR PROCESSES AND PROCEDURES AND POLICIES BEFORE A PROBLEM HAPPENS.
SO IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE THEN IF THIS WAS A POSITION THAT WAS CREATED, THAT NOT ONLY WOULD WE BE ABLE TO LOOK AT OPERATIONAL AUDITS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, BUT ALSO MAYBE BE MORE PROACTIVE ON THE FISCAL SIDE AS WELL, BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE SOMEBODY DEDICATED SO THAT IT WOULDN'T BE TO TO TO YOUR POINT WHERE IT'S LIKE, HEY, BUT SOMEBODY DID SOMETHING WRONG.
EVENTUALLY IT'S GOING TO GET CAUGHT.
WELL, WHAT IF WE CAN GET THERE BEFORE THE EVENTUALLY? YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? NO, NO, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN.
IF I COULD JUST COMMENT ON THAT.
SO ONE THING I WOULD SAY ABOUT THE FINANCIAL AUDIT PROCESS IS THE WAY YOU THE WAY YOU DETERMINE IF YOU NEED SOMETHING MORE RIGOROUS IN THE BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR IS WHAT TYPES OF FINDINGS YOUR AUDITOR GIVES YOU AT THE END OF THE YEAR.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT OUR AUDITS, OUR AUDITS ARE GOOD.
THE AREAS THAT WE'VE HAD ISSUES WITH IN RECENT YEARS HAVE BEEN AREAS OF THE HOUSING FINANCE. AND THAT'S THAT'S SOMETHING WE'VE BEEN VERY TRANSPARENT ABOUT.
IT PREDATES ME BEING HERE AT THE CITY, AND IT WAS JUST A LOT OF CHANGES IN PERSONNEL THAT REALLY LED TO THINGS NOT BEING WHERE THEY NEEDED TO BE.
SO THAT WAS A FINDING FROM THE AUDITORS FOR A SERIES OF YEARS THAT WE'VE BEEN CLEANING UP. AS WE'VE GONE DURING THE YEAR, THOUGH, THE EXPECTATION IS THAT YOUR PROCESSES AND YOUR CHECKS AND BALANCES THAT ARE IN PLACE FROM YOUR FINANCE DEPARTMENT, YOUR YOUR ACCOUNTING TEAM, YOUR PAYROLL TEAM, ALSO YOUR PROCUREMENT TEAM, ALL OF THOSE CHECKS AND BALANCES WHERE WE FOLLOW OUR POLICIES, OUR ORDINANCES, ETC., THAT THOSE KEEP PROBLEMS FROM HAPPENING. COULD GIVE YOU THE LIKE YOU SAY, THE BIG PICTURE IS EVERYTHING.
AS YOU KNOW, THE CHARTER OFFICERS, YOU HAVE THERESE, YOU HAVE PATRICIA, YOU HAVE THE ZAHN. PATRICIA HAS HER ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
DOES THE LEGISLATIVE THE REST OF THE DEPARTMENT FALLS ON, SUZANNE.
COUNCIL, MAYOR AND COUNCIL ARE THE ONES THAT OVERLOOK WHAT THE CITY MANAGER IS DOING AND IF THERE'S ANY DYSFUNCTION, YOU'RE GOING TO PICK IT UP.
YOU'RE GOING YOU'RE GOING TO PICK IT UP.
IF YOU'RE IF YOU HAVE AN ACT OF COUNSEL THAT ACTUALLY IS PAYING ATTENTION.
YOU'RE GOING TO CATCH YOU'RE GOING TO CATCH CERTAIN CERTAIN THINGS.
AND THEN YOU BRING IT TO THE ATTENTION OF THE CITY MANAGER AND SAY, OKAY, WHY IS THIS HAPPENING? AND EVERY TIME YOU KNOW HOW TO CATCH IT, BECAUSE DURING THE BUDGET, WHEN YOU GO THROUGH THE BUDGET, EVERY DEPARTMENT IS HAS ASKED.
AND IF YOU'RE COMING BACK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE YEAR ASKING FOR SOMETHING, WHY DIDN'T YOU ASK AT THE BEGINNING? WHY IS THIS COMING UP? WHICH THE EARNEST AND FALLS ON THE CITY MANAGER.
SO THAT'S THE THAT'S THE THE WHOLE CHECKS AND BALANCES THAT YOU HAVE.
COUNCIL HAS A CERTAIN RESPONSIBILITY.
AND THEY HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO VOTE.
THEY HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO OVERSEE WHAT THE CITY MANAGER IS DOING.
IF THE OLD CITY MANAGER'S NOT FUNCTIONING THE WAY THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO, THEN BY A SIMPLE MAJORITY, THEN THE CITY MANAGER HAS TO GO.
AND THAT'S NOT THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE CITY, NOT ONLY HERE IN THE CITY OF PALM BAY.
IT'S HAPPENED THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF FLORIDA.
THAT IS THE PROCESS IS UP TO COUNCIL TO BE PAYING ATTENTION, TO BE PAYING ATTENTION.
SOMETIMES I SAY THIS POSITION THAT YOU SIGN UP FOR, THAT PEOPLE VOTE YOU IN FOR IS NOT JUST ABOUT PHOTO OPS.
IT'S ALSO ABOUT HOLDING ACCOUNTABLE.
HOLDING THE CITY MANAGER, THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THE CITY CLERK ACCOUNTABLE.
AND UNDERSTAND THE CITY MANAGER'S POSITION HAS A LIFELINE.
MOST CITY MANAGERS, IF THEY SURVIVE 3 TO 5 YEARS BECAUSE OF THE TURNOVER IN COUNCIL, IT'S A MIRACLE YOU WON.
FINE. AND IT'S TRUE NOT TO PUT HER ON THE SPOT, BUT IT'S THE TRUTH.
THE LIFE EXPECTANCY OF A CITY MANAGER.
I DID THIS FOR A LONG TIME, AND I.
TALK TO OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS AND MAYORS TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE WHOLE PROCESS WORKS.
[00:30:07]
PEOPLE. PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES.PEOPLE FALL IN LOVE WITH POWER.
AND THEN YOU'VE GOT TO MOVE ON.
YEAH. YOU GOT TO TURN IT UP ON THE.
ALL RIGHT. SO I GUESS MY SENTIMENT IS SIMILAR TO MOST PEOPLE HERE.
I AM NOT 100% SOLD ON THIS, OR AT LEAST INITIALLY LOOKING AT IT AND LOOKING AT THE JOB DESCRIPTIONS OF ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE.
MY INITIAL THOUGHT IS, NO, WE DON'T NEED THIS.
BUT LISTENING TO CITY MANAGER, I'VE A QUICK QUESTION NOW.
THE AVERAGE SALARY SEEMS TO RANGE, IT SAYS HERE FROM 52000 TO 87000 A YEAR, IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOMEBODY LIKE THAT.
IN TERMS OF ONE, YOU DID AN EXTERNAL AUDIT TO LOOK AT YOUR WHAT WAS THE COST OF THAT? SO FOR THAT, FOR THE AUDIT WE DID LAST YEAR, I THINK WE SPENT AROUND.
AND THEY THEY LOOKED AT THREE MAJOR OPERATIONAL AREAS.
SO, I MEAN, JUST MAKING ROUND NUMBERS, I'D SAY IT COST US ABOUT $10,000 PER AREA THAT THEY LOOKED AT. BUT THEY CAME ON SITE, INTERVIEWED STAFF, LOOKED AT ALL OF OUR WRITTEN POLICIES AND PROCEDURES.
THEY HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE REVIEWING PROBLEMS THAT OTHER CITIES HAVE HAD IN PLACES WHERE THEY FOUND THEMSELVES IN A BAD PLACE BECAUSE SOMEONE WAS TAKING MONEY FROM THE CITY FOR YEARS AND THEY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT, FOR EXAMPLE.
SO BASED ON ALL THEIR EXPERIENCE, THEY, THEY LOOK AT THE CITY FOR VULNERABILITIES AND THAT'S WHAT THEY DID LAST YEAR. AND THEY'RE GOING TO DO THAT AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, THIS SUMMER. CORRECT.
SO IN MY SENSE, WHEN I LOOK AT THIS, IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S MATH, RIGHT? WHAT MAKES SENSE IS OVERHEAD 80,000 WHERE I MAY NOT GET SOMEONE WHO IS A PROFESSIONAL.
AS MAYOR CAPONE MENTIONED, IT'S LITERALLY PASSED THE PASSING THE BUCK BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HOPEFULLY HOPE THIS PERSON IS A PROFESSIONAL, KNOWS ALL THE INS AND OUTS, UNDERSTANDS TECHNOLOGY, UNDERSTANDS ALL THESE THINGS TO BE ABLE TO GIVE A COMPREHENSIVE REPORT, AND YOU PROBABLY WON'T FIND THAT IN ONE PERSON.
SO YOU MAY HAVE TO HAVE A TEAM, A STAFF TO GO THROUGH THAT.
NOW, IT MAKES NO SENSE WHERE I COULD SPEND 30 OR EVEN $60,000 TO COVER ALL THE AREAS, THEN IT ISN'T PRACTICAL AND I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S NECESSARY.
THE OTHER QUESTION I HAD IN TERMS OF THE THE FRAUD COMMITTEE THAT YOU MENTIONED, THE FIRST THING THAT CAME TO MY MIND IS HOW CAN YOU POLICE YOURSELF? RIGHT. AND SO I WOULD LOVE TO GET A LITTLE MORE CLARIFICATION OF THAT.
WELL, YOU HAVE TO POLICE YOURSELF.
ONE OF THE THINGS BEFORE I WORKED HERE, I WORKED AT THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, AND I WAS A PROSECUTOR. I WAS IN PROSECUTION SERVICES.
AND ONE OF THE BOARDS I HAD WAS THE BOARD OF DENTISTRY.
AND PEOPLE WOULD COMPLAIN, WERE LIKE, WELL, I GOT AN X RAY REPORT, SAID THE DENTIST DIDN'T DO ANYTHING. WELL, YOU SENT IT TO A DENTIST.
WHO ELSE IS GOING TO TELL US WHETHER THE DENTAL WORK WAS APPROPRIATE OTHER THAN IT DID? IS IS OF COURSE, AS FAR AS HAVING EMPLOYEES POLICE THEMSELVES.
WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING WITHIN YOUR EXPERTIZE, IT DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT TO REPORT IT.
IT IS THE COUNCIL'S RESPONSIBILITY WHEN THEY SEE THAT THINGS AREN'T RIGHT TO TAKE ACTION.
WHETHER THAT'S GETTING WITH THE CITY MANAGER, LETTING HER KNOW THAT THINGS DON'T SEEM TO BE GOING WELL, THE CITY ATTORNEY SEEING WHAT WE NEED TO DO AS FAR AS AUTOPSIES.
BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY TYPE OF BUSINESS OR A CITY WHERE THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR MAKING IT WORK ARE THE PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF IT.
IT WON'T WORK. YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT EACH AND EVERY PERSON HAS A ROLE, THAT THEY DON'T JUST COME AND GET A PAYCHECK AND DO A JOB.
THEY MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY WORKS TOGETHER AND THAT WE'RE USING THE TAXPAYER FUNDS IN A WISE AND PRUDENT MANNER, AND THAT WE'RE DOING PROCESSES THAT ARE FAIR AND DOESN'T SUBJECT THE CITY TO LIABILITY.
I JUST DON'T KNOW OF A WAY IN WHICH YOU HAVE AN ORGANIZATION.
I MEAN, THAT'S HR DEPARTMENTS.
THERE WITHIN THE CITY. YOU CAN'T HAVE SOMEBODY ELSE OUTSIDE.
I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MECHANISM WHERE YOU HAVE A REVIEW THAT DOES NOT HAVE THE PEOPLE WITHIN IT.
OF COURSE, YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO PERIODICALLY HAVE SOMEBODY OUTSIDE TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE PEOPLE WITHIN HAVEN'T BEEN CORRUPTED OR THAT THEY'RE NOT SO INEFFICIENT OR UNTRAINED. BUT YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE AN EXPECTATION THAT THE PEOPLE THAT WORK WITHIN THE CITY ARE GOING TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEMSELVES AND OTHERS.
BUT THE GUYS MY QUESTION IS, WHEN YOU DO HAVE THESE COMMITTEES OR IF THERE IS SOMETHING
[00:35:03]
THAT'S BROUGHT UP, IS IT SOMETHING WHERE PEOPLE FROM THE PUBLIC IS ABLE TO COME IN AND SEE HOW IT IS MANAGED AND SEE HOW YOU'RE MAKING THE DECISIONS? OR IS IT A SITUATION WHERE I GUESS LOOKING AT IT JUST OVERALL, THE BIG PICTURE, YOU ALL SIT HERE IN THE ROOM, IT LOOKS GOOD.IT WORKS FINE FOR YOU, I GUESS.
I DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT.
AND WE CAN, YOU KNOW, OH YEAH, WE'LL CALL IT AN EARLY MEETING AND GO BECAUSE IT LOOKS FINE. THE QUESTION, I GUESS FOR ME IS I DON'T KNOW HOW THE FRAUD COMMITTEE OPERATES.
AND IT WOULD BE INTERESTING. AGAIN, THIS IS NOT THE MEETING.
IT'S NOT THE MEETING FOR THIS.
BUT I JUST WANT I WAS I WAS I'M HAPPY TO KNOW THAT YOU HAVE IT.
BUT I WASN'T FULLY AWARE OF I'M NOT FULLY AWARE OF THE HOW IT WORKS.
BUT TO KIND OF GO BACK TO WHERE WE ARE REALLY, BECAUSE I GUESS THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT.
THAT'S ONLY BECAUSE ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THE COMMITTEE STARTED IS I WORKED WITH COUNCILMAN BAILEY.
IT WAS LIKE, WELL, I CAN'T GET ANOTHER CHARTER OFFICER.
YOU KNOW, MISS SMITH, HOW CAN I GET THE FUNCTIONS THAT I WANT WITHIN THE SYSTEM THAT I HAVE? AND I WANT SOMETHING BECAUSE VIRTUALLY ALL THE EMPLOYEES REPORT TO THE CITY MANAGER. SO HIS THINKING IS, IF I WANT SOMETHING TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ALL ARE DOING WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO AND CHECKING YOURSELF, I WANT IT TO BE WHERE? SOMEBODY OUTSIDE OF THE CITY MANAGER.
IS HAS SOME CONTROL OR HAS SOME SAY IN IT, BECAUSE IF WE HAVE A IF IT'S JUST A CITY MANAGER AND COUNCIL HAS TO REPORT.
RELY ON ONLY THE REPORT OF THE CITY MANAGER, THEN IT MAY BE PROBLEMATIC.
AND AS FAR AS THE COUNTY I KEEP WANTING TO CALL YOU MAYOR SAYS YOU KNOW WHEN HE WAS ON COUNCIL TYPICALLY YOU KNOW IT'S AN ACTIVE COUNCIL AND PEOPLE THAT KNOW THAT COUNCIL CARES. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO JUST HEAR FROM CITY MANAGER BECAUSE EMPLOYEES ARE GOING TO TELL THEM AND RESIDENTS ARE GOING TO TELL THEM.
AND IT'S JUST PROVIDES ANOTHER AVENUE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GO DIRECTLY TO THE EMPLOYEES OF THE CITY MANAGER. BUT THIS COMMITTEE CAN HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO INVESTIGATE, WHICH INCLUDES, AH, THE CHARTER OFFICERS, THAT THE COUNCIL DOES HAVE MORE AUTHORITY OVER AS FAR AS BEING ABLE TO DIRECT.
SO IN YOUR OPINION, WOULD IT THEN BE NECESSARY OR TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS HANDLING THAT, LIKE WHAT DO YOU CALL IT, AN AUDITOR OR A GENERAL? CERTAINLY, IF THAT'S WHAT THIS COMMISSION WANTED TO RECOMMEND AND THE VOTERS VOTED UPON, I WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM DRAFTING IT UP APPROPRIATELY IN HER.
OKAY. YOU WANT HER? SHE'S THE ATTORNEY, RIGHT? RIGHT. YOU WANT HER TO MAKE YOUR DECISION FOR YOU? NO, NO, NO. WHAT I.
WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AN IDEA OF BASED ON WHEN SHE EXPOUNDED ON THAT, IF IT'S WHEN SHE LOOKS WHERE WHAT WE'RE DOING CURRENTLY, IT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO HAVE SOMEONE ELSE.
AGAIN, IN MY OPINION, IT'S A NO.
SO I'M JUST TRYING TO AGAIN, YOU'RE HERE, YOU'RE WORKING.
I JUST WANTED. YOU'RE A PART OF THE FRAUD.
WELL, YOU SIT IN ON THE FRAUD COMMITTEE.
SO I WAS JUST TRYING TO JUST KIND OF LOOKING EXTERNALLY.
WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO HAVE SOMEONE ELSE THAT REPORTS TO COUNCIL OR SOMEBODY INDEPENDENT, AS IT WERE? I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S PRACTICAL.
I THINK THE IDEA OF CALLING IN A CONSULTANT, IN ADDITION TO YOU WORKING IN THE GROUP, WORKING TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE EFFICIENT, IS A MORE PRACTICAL SOLUTION TO ME.
SO I WAS JUST HEARING IF YOU HAD ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT.
NOW THAT MAY BE A REALLY GOOD QUESTION FOR DEPUTY MAYOR, AS COMMISSIONER TAYLOR POINTED OUT EXACTLY THAT.
AND WHAT I'M TRYING I'M I'M JUST GIVING YOU MY PERSPECTIVE OF SITTING UP THERE FOR 12 YEARS AND THE RESPONSIBILITY AND HOW I TOOK IT TO HEART.
I, I TAKE WHAT JEFFREY AND JORDAN ARE SAYING.
WE NEED THE DEPUTY MAYOR TO BE UP HERE AND THEN GIVE HIS OPINION.
THIS IS NOT ME VOTING AGAINST IT RIGHT NOW.
WE'RE IN A DISCUSSION AND WE COULD TABLE THIS TO ANOTHER MEETING AND ALLOW HIM TO COME IN AND MAKE SURE THAT HE BECAUSE I THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO BE HERE, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE CITY CLERK TOLD ME, THAT THIS WAS HIS ITEM AND THAT HE WAS GOING TO BE HERE TO TALK TO US ABOUT IT. SO WE'RE HERE IN FULL DISCUSSION NOW WAITING FOR HIM, BUT WE NEED TO TABLE IT BECAUSE HE'S NOT HERE.
BUT UNDERSTAND AND I'M GOING TO EMPHASIZE THIS.
THE RESPONSIBILITY AS COUNCILS.
IS COUNCIL'S RESPONSIBLE RESPONSIBILITY.
I MEAN, I USED TO SPEND 30, SOMETIMES 40 HOURS.
A WEEK HERE. PEOPLE USED TO TALK TO ME BECAUSE I WAS HERE ALL THE TIME, WHETHER THEY
[00:40:01]
LIKED IT OR NOT. SOME PEOPLE LIKED US, SOME PEOPLE DIDN'T.BUT THERE WAS A LEVEL OF COMFORT THE FACT THAT I WAS HERE BECAUSE THERE WAS SOMEBODY WITHIN COUNCIL THAT KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON.
AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT.
THAT'S WHY YOU'RE ASKING FOR A RAISE.
YOU'RE ASKING FOR THIS, THEN YOU NEED TO ENGAGE.
THAT'S WHY PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU WANT COUNCIL TO TO.
BE RESPONSIBLE TO THE LEVEL THAT YOU EXPECTED.
STOP CALLING THIS JOB A PART TIME JOB, AND THEN IF YOU PAY ACCORDINGLY, THEN THAT'S WHY I WAS ALWAYS A PROPONENT ON THE LAST RACE AND IT WASN'T SO MUCH.
I MEAN, I WENT FROM $8,000 A YEAR TO $21,000 A YEAR.
SO IF AND MUCH HOW MUCH TIME I SPENT HERE AND PUT MY HEART AND SOUL INTO DOING THIS JOB.
I WANTED PEOPLE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT TAKES TO DO THIS JOB.
AND IF YOU'RE DEMANDING YOU'RE DEMANDING THESE THINGS FROM COUNCIL, THEN COUNCIL NEEDS TO BE HERE. AND THE ONLY WAY COUNCIL COULD BE HERE, THEY CAN BE THIS CANNOT BE A SUPPLEMENTAL INCOME TO THEIR FULL TIME JOB BECAUSE THEIR FULL TIME JOB IS ALWAYS GOING TO TAKE PRESIDENT. SO THIS IS ONLY GOING TO BE SECONDARY.
I REALLY LATCHED ON TO YOUR POINT ABOUT THE PROACTIVE NATURE OF MONITORING THE PEOPLE'S PURSE. I WANT TO SHARE SOMETHING WITH YOU GUYS.
NUMBER ONE. BOARDS AND COUNSELORS ARE NOT ALWAYS EQUIPPED WITH THE EXPERTIZE.
I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
IN MY PRIOR LIFE, I WORK FOR A SCHOOL BOARD AS AN ATTORNEY.
LITIGATION. WE START GETTING REPORTS THAT SOMETHING FUNNY WAS GOING ON IN THE PERSON WHO MANAGED THE BUCKETS OF MONEY THAT A SCHOOL DISTRICT RECEIVES SIMILAR TO A CITY.
AND FOR TEN YEARS, THIS GUY WAS MOVING LITTLE BITS OF MONEY FROM EACH ACCOUNT.
THEY FOUND OUT AFTER HE WAS GONE.
THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS IF WE ARE PROTECTORS OF THE PEOPLE'S MONEY, WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME PROACTIVE THINGS IN PLACE, GIVEN THE FACT THAT OUR COUNCILMEN MAY NOT NECESSARILY HAVE THE EXPERTIZE TO DISCERN WRONGDOING.
SO THE QUESTION AFTER THOSE COMMENTS IS, ARE WE CONFIDENT THAT THE SYSTEMS IN PLACE CAN DETECT WRONGDOING AND IS ONCE A YEAR AUDIT SUFFICIENT TO DO SO? AND IF NOT, WHAT ALTERNATIVES ARE WE SUPPOSED TO RECOMMEND? DO YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO THAT? IT'S IT'S A VERY HARD.
EVEN SUZANNE IS LOOKING AT IT LIKE, I UNDERSTAND UNDERSTAND THIS.
YOU WERE WORKING FOR THE SCHOOL SYSTEM.
IT'S THIS IS ANOTHER DIFFERENT TYPE OF GOVERNMENT ENTITY AND ARE CERTAIN RESPONSIBILITIES. AND THAT'S WHY THERE'S A YEARLY AUDIT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF OF ACCOUNTABILITY. THE ERNEST FALLS ON THE CITY MANAGER.
THE CITY MANAGER OVERSEES THIS DEPARTMENT'S.
YOU HAVE QUARTERLY MEETINGS ON THE BUDGET.
IF YOU ARE A PROACTIVE COUNCIL MEMBER, YOU WILL BE ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS.
IT'S NOT ABOUT MOST PEOPLE THAT WALK, EVEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
I'LL GIVE YOU DIFFERENT EXAMPLE OF PRESIDENTS.
THEY WALKED INTO THAT JOB AND THEY WERE OVERWHELMED BECAUSE ONE THING IS RUNNING FOR THE OFFICE AND THEN ACTUALLY DOING THE JOB, BECAUSE ONCE YOU GET THERE AND YOU HAVE TO DO THE JOB, THEN YOU START ASKING QUESTIONS.
SO THE PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE EXPERT, BECAUSE REMEMBER, WHEN WE ARRIVE, WE MAKE PROMISES, WE ALL MAKE PROMISES.
WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS. WE'RE GOING TO FIX YOUR ROADS.
WE'RE GOING TO BE WE'RE GOING TO GET INVOLVED WITH THE SCHOOLS.
WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS. THIS IS NOT.
AND THEN WE'VE REALIZED WHEN WE GET THAT, OH, WE DON'T HAVE A BUCKET OF MONEY HERE AND A BUCKET OF MONEY HERE, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
IN ORDER TO GET THE ROADS DONE.
WE NEED TO. WE NEEDED TO PASS A REFERENDUM.
IN ORDER TO TO TO GET THE THE DRAINAGE AND ALL OF THAT WAS A SPECIAL ASSESSMENT.
[00:45:05]
SO THERE'S A COLLECTIVE BODY OF MONEY THAT WE GET EVERY YEAR THAT SOMETIMES IS NOT SUFFICIENT. AND I THINK THAT WHEN PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE INTRICACY OF HOW THE CITY WORKS.THEY MAKE IDEAS IN THEIR HEAD THAT THE CITY WORKS LIKE A BUSINESS AND IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT. I UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT DAVID JONES IS SAYING.
I UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THE ONE PERSON THAT'S A PROPONENT OF THIS LEGISLATION PER SE, AND ALLOWED HIM TO COME AND SPEAK TO US.
I'M JUST GIVING YOU MY PERSONAL OPINION FROM THE 12 YEARS THAT I SET UP THERE ON WHO THE EARNEST OF THE RESPONSIBILITY FALLS.
BILL HAS BEEN HERE LONG ENOUGH AND I'VE SEEN PLENTY OF BILLS.
BILL WAS ONE OF MANY PEOPLE THAT I'VE SEEN COME TO COUNCIL MEETINGS.
THE PEOPLE THAT WERE REGULAR, THEY STOOD ON TOP OF COUNCIL.
WE COULD AGREE TO DISAGREE BECAUSE WE DID.
BUT I KNOW HE DOES HIS HOMEWORK.
SO ANYTIME I SET UP THERE AND HE CAME AFTER ME BECAUSE HE DID, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO SIT UP THERE AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE RESIDENTS COMING AT YOU, IT WOULD BEHOOVE YOU TO READ THE MATERIAL AS GIVEN TO YOU.
IT WOULD BEHOOVE YOU TO TALK TO THE CHARTER MEMBERS.
IT WOULD BEHOOVE YOU TO GO TO THE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENT HEADS AND FIND OUT EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING ON IN YOUR COMMUNITY.
THIS IS NOT AGAIN, THIS IS NOT A PHOTO OP SITUATION.
YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY AND A JOB TO DO.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A QUICK COMMENT, WHEREAS THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE AUDITOR GENERAL WOULD BE EVEN THE RIGHT PERSON, BECAUSE JUST IMAGINE YOU'RE HAVING HOW OFTEN ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE A MEETING? HOW OFTEN ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE A REVIEW OF, YOU KNOW, FINANCES? IS IT GOING TO BE ANY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE DO NOW? A QUARTERLY, I THINK WHO'S GOING TO WORK WITH THEM? SO WHEREAS, YOU KNOW, IT SOUNDS GREAT, BUT IN TERMS OF THE PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF IT, I JUST DON'T SEE AND BELIEVE THAT A AUDITOR GENERAL AND LOOKING AT THE JOB DESCRIPTION AND THE SKILLS THAT THEY WANT THEM TO HAVE, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF YOU WOULD EVEN FIND SOMEONE WOULD BE ABLE TO GO THROUGH ALL THIS AND DO THE JOB.
AND REMEMBER, THE RANGE OF SALARY, JUST JUST THE FACT THAT YOU SAID THAT RANGE OF SALARY.
TO GET A QUALITY PERSON AT 50 TO 80000, THEY COULD DO THE JOB AND HAVE THE YEARS OF EXPERIENCE BECAUSE ANYBODY THAT IS AN AUDITOR, AS YOU'RE AN ATTORNEY, YOU KNOW THAT THE MORE YEARS OF EXPERIENCE YOU HAVE.
BUT JUST IF WE WANT A TABLE THIS BECAUSE EVERYBODY'S GOING TO TALK FROM A DIFFERENT POSITION. BUT IF YOU WANT TO TABLE THIS, SOMEBODY MAKE THE MOTION.
IN EVERY CITY WHERE THERE'S BEEN A SCANDAL OR ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEFT OR FRAUD.
MM HMM. IT'S ALWAYS FOUND OUT AFTER THE HORSE HAS LEFT THE BARN.
SO, YOU KNOW, I'M LINKING BACK TO DAVID.
I WANT TO SEE SOMETHING PROACTIVE.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE THE CITY COUNCILMAN WHO WAS SAYING THIS TO TELL US WHAT HAS HE SEEN THAT MAKES HIM BELIEVE THAT THIS IS NEEDED? NO, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I JUST SAID.
MAYBE I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE THIS AND ALLOW HIM TO SEND THAT REQUEST.
MR. CHAIR. MR. CHAIRMAN, BEFORE BEFORE WE DO THAT, LET ME GIVE YOU MY THOUGHTS ON THIS.
FIRST OF ALL, AS YOU ALL KNOW, THERE'S A GENERAL DISTRUST OF GOVERNMENT NOT JUST IN THE CITY OF PALM BAY, BUT NATIONALLY.
IT'S JUST IT'S THE WORLD WE LIVE IN, UNFORTUNATELY.
PART OF THIS IS BEING PROPOSED AS A PANACEA TO ADDRESS THAT, SO THAT THE CITIZENS SAY, OH, WE HAVE AN AUDITOR GENERAL.
AND, YOU KNOW, JEFF BAILEY'S PROPOSAL WAS THE RESPONSIBILITY CONSIST OF FINANCIAL OVERSIGHT OR AUDITING AS WELL AS ETHICAL COMPLAINTS.
WELL, YOU HEARD SUZANNE TALK ABOUT WE HAVE AN ANNUAL AUDIT, AND I UNDERSTAND YOU.
WELL, DO WE HAVE ANY PROACTIVE PEOPLE LOOKING AT THIS? YEAH, WE CALL THEM OUR FINANCE DEPARTMENT OR PROCUREMENT DEPARTMENT, THE CITY MANAGER.
SO, YEAH, THERE ARE PROACTIVE PROCEDURES CONSTANTLY IN PLACE.
SECONDLY, AS FAR AS ETHICAL COMPLAINTS, THIS IS GOING TO BE A CHARTER OFFICER.
WHO DO THEY ANSWER TO? THE CHARTER OFFICERS ANSWER TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
THAT'S THE PEOPLE PRIMARILY THAT THE PEOPLE DON'T TRUST.
SO SO WHAT IS THE POINT OF THAT AS FAR AS AS FAR AS ETHICAL COMPLAINTS GO, THERE IS A
[00:50:03]
STATE COMMISSION ON ETHICS THAT YOU CAN FILE ETHICS COMPLAINTS WITH.SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S THIS IS ONE OF THOSE IDEAS.
THIS PERSON IS GOING TO BE RESPONSIBLE TO ANSWER TO THE PEOPLE.
WELL, NO, THEY'RE GOING TO ANSWER TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
YOU KNOW, AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE IT.
IT'S NOT JUST YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A SALARY RANGE OF AROUND 50 TO $80000.
IF YOU CAN FIND SOMEBODY WHO HAS THOSE QUALIFICATIONS TO FILL THAT, YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT ONE PERSON. IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FINANCIAL OVERSIGHT OF ALL THE FINANCIAL OPERATIONS OF THE CITY, THEY'RE GOING TO NEED A STAFF.
SO WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS YOU'RE PROLIFERATING GOVERNMENT.
AND THAT'S THE PEOPLE THAT THE CITY, YOU KNOW, THAT THE CITIZENS DON'T TRUST.
THIS IS JUST ANOTHER LAYER OF GOVERNMENT.
SO SO, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS.
AND I THINK IT'S IT'S I MEAN, IT SOUNDS GOOD.
IT'S NICE THE IDEA OF IT, BUT IN PRACTICALITY, IT'S SIMPLY NOT WORKABLE.
LET ME GIVE YOU I'M SORRY TO CUT YOU OFF.
I'M. THINK OF THIS LIKE THIS YOU HAVE AN EDIT CHARTER OFFICER.
THAT CHARTER OFFICER REPORTS TO COUNCIL.
IT'S A SIMPLE MAJORITY TO GAG THAT PERSON.
YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY? IT'S YOU.
YOU YOU HAVE AN ADDITIONAL CHARTER OFFICER LIKE ANY CHARTER OFFICER.
THOSE CHARTER OFFICERS ANSWER TO COUNCIL OC.
THAT AUDIT, THEY COULD AUDIT AND COUNCIL COULD SQUASH IT.
GET THE PICTURE. SO BUT LIKE I SAID, I'M JUST GIVING YOU THE BIGGER PICTURE BECAUSE I'VE SET UP THERE AND I CAN TELL YOU THE DIFFERENT SCENARIOS THAT COULD GO.
YOU COULD BE THE ONLY LONE WOLF SITTING UP THERE TRYING TO CHANGE A CITY MANAGER, A CITY ATTORNEY, A CITY CLERK, AND YOU'LL BE THE LONE WOLF.
BECAUSE YOU NEED A SIMPLE MAJORITY TO ACCOMPLISH IT.
AND THAT'S PART OF THE PROCESS OF POLITICS.
THAT'S THE PROCESS THAT THE CHARTER PUT TOGETHER.
IF YOU HAVEN'T SET UP THERE AND DONE THAT TYPE OF JOB, YOU COME WITH A CIVILIAN MINDSET AND YOU THINK THAT'S A THAT'S A BETTER IDEA.
TO FIX THE ISSUE, YOU REALLY WOULD HAVE TO REVAMP THE WHOLE CHARTER AND REWRITE IT IN A WAY LIKE THE PRIVATE SECTOR IN ORDER TO MAKE IT WORK.
AND GOOD LUCK WITH THAT, BECAUSE YOU EITHER HAVE A STRONG MAYOR.
AND THAT HAS US POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE.
THEN YOU HAVE THE CITY MANAGER COUNCIL FORM OF GOVERNMENT AND DOES OTHER ONES THAT GO ALONG. DIFFERENT SYSTEMS IS BASICALLY THE CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE PUT IN PLACE.
YOU HAVE A COUNCIL, YOU HAVE THE CITY MANAGER, YOU HAVE THE DEPARTMENTS.
AND YOU HOPE THAT THE PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE GOVERNING AS COUNCIL MEMBERS, WHICH IS THE CHARTER OFFICERS, ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING.
AND THAT IS WHY I LIKE DISCUSSIONS SUCH AS THESE.
IF A COUNCIL MEMBER IS MAKING AN ASK TO PUT SOMETHING INTO THE CHARTER.
THE PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW THE PROS AND CONS, AND I THINK THAT'S OUR JOB.
SO WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE, THOUGH, IS WE'RE ACTUALLY FLESHING OUT THIS POSITION.
SO WHEN HE COMES TO GIVE US HIS RATIONALE, WE'LL BE EQUIPPED TO QUESTION IT.
I MEAN, I LIKE AND I'M NOT TAKING A POSITION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
MY CONCERN IS WHEN YOU HANDLE THE PEOPLE'S PURSE, YOU'VE GOT TO CATCH THE THIEVES BEFORE THEY GET THROUGH THE GATE. YEAH.
MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I MAY, WE CAN KEEP TALKING ABOUT THIS ALL NIGHT.
EVERYBODY'S GOT A DIFFERENT OPINION.
BUT THE PERSON WHO'S PROPOSING THIS AND WHAT HE HAS IN MIND AND HOW HE SEES THIS POSITION, HE'S NOT HERE.
SO THERE'S YOU KNOW, WE CAN KEEP TALKING ABOUT AND TALK ABOUT AND TALK.
AND THOSE ARE ISSUES THAT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT, HOPEFULLY TO HIM.
SO WE CAN GET THAT CLARIFIED, YOU KNOW, THE PERSON WHO'S MAKING THE PROPOSAL AND WHOSE IDEA IT IS. SO I WOULD MAKE A MOTION THAT WE TABLE THIS UNTIL OUR NEXT MEETING SO THAT HE CAN BE IN ATTENDANCE AND WE CAN ADDRESS ALL THESE ISSUES AND THESE QUESTIONS AND VIEWPOINTS TO HIM.
SECOND. SECOND BY COMMISSIONER JONES.
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION, IF NOT BEFORE, BEFORE WE TAKE A VOTE.
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WISH TO RESPOND TO THAT? NONE. WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO CALL IT ALL IN FAVOR.
YOU WANT TO BE NAME? OKAY. HERE YOU GO.
ALL RIGHT. I GUESS OUR NEXT MEETING, IT'S GOING TO BE APRIL 12, I BELIEVE.
[00:55:03]
THAT'S WHAT I SEE ON THE CALENDAR.ONE, AND I'VE TALKED TO OUR ATTORNEY, THE FANTASTIC MISS SMITH, AND I LET HER KNOW THAT.
WONDER WOMAN. WONDER WOMAN? YEAH. SO WE, WE DISCUSSED AND THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE ADVISORY AND OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE MEETING AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE LEARNED IS THAT WE HAVE A PLAN FOR OUR ROAD MAINTENANCE, BUT WE DON'T HAVE IT, WHICH WAS APPROVED BUT WASN'T APPROVED AS A WAY TO PAY FOR IT.
SO WHICH IS WHAT I'VE COME TO CITY GOVERNMENT, RIGHT? YEAH. IT WAS A WEIRD MOMENT WHERE WE WERE ALL CONFUSED AND LIKE THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. AND ONE OF THE MEMBERS BROUGHT UP POTENTIALLY ADDING TO THE CHARTER THAT A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF TAXES BE PUT ASIDE SO THAT WE ALWAYS HAVE A WAY TO PAY FOR OUR ROAD MAINTENANCE PROGRAM.
I'LL LET SUZANNE HANDLE THAT ISSUE.
AND SO AND SO I WAS GOING TO ASK FOR SOME MORE RESEARCH DONE AND FOR THAT TO BE A TOPIC OF CONVERSATION FOR THE NEXT MEETING.
WHICH I'M GOING TO GIVE THAT TO.
BUT I JUST WANTED TO LET THEM KNOW.
AND THEN SECOND, I DID HAVE ONE OTHER THING.
WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE AND I THINK MISS JONES WAS GOING TO BRING IT AT THE LAST MEETING THAT WE HAD. COUNCILMAN CHANDLER.
BROUGHT UP EMOTION THAT HE WANTED TO BRING SOMETHING BACK UP.
AND IT WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE FOLLOWED PROCEDURE.
HE BROUGHT IT BACK UP AND IT WAS IMMEDIATELY LIKE, LET'S TAKE A VOTE ON IT.
WE DIDN'T GIVE ANYBODY, ANY CITIZENS THE ABILITY TO DISCUSS AND THEN WE JUST VOTED IT AS A NAY. AND IN MY OPINION, THAT'S WRONG.
IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE BRING SOMETHING TO THE TABLE, I FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD FOLLOW THE PROCEDURE FOR EVERYTHING THAT WE DO.
YOU WEREN'T HERE. SO I KNOW. LIKE, SO TYPICALLY IT'S INTERJECT.
I'M SORRY, BUT. BUT YOU WERE IN THIS DISCUSSION WHEN.
WHEN THE DISCUSSION IS HERE, IT'S NOT AN ITEM ON ON THE AGENDA FOR DISCUSSION.
SO THE DISCUSSION IS IS WITHIN US IS WITHIN US.
THERE'S NO PUBLIC COMMENT AT THAT TIME.
BUT IF SOMEBODY AND I SPOKE TO TERESA BECAUSE SHE'S SICK, SO SHE TOLD ME TO TELL EVERYONE THAT IF YOU WANT TO BRING ANYTHING BACK UP IS BY A MAJORITY VOTE.
THAT'S BASICALLY BASICALLY IT THAT'S NO DISCUSSION BECAUSE THAT'S A MATTER AMONG US, NOT THE CITIZENS. AND JUST FROM MY CLARITY, DID WE HAVE DISCUSSION AMONG US, BECAUSE I, I DON'T RECALL.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I ACTUALLY WENT BACK AND WATCHED THE LAST CHART REVIEW COMMISSION MEETING AND THE CHAIR AT THE TIME, MR. WEINBERG DID ASK FOR DISCUSSION.
BUT HE DID ASK FOR DISCUSSION.
AND IF THE DISCUSSION IS ASKED.
PROCEDURALLY. WHOEVER VOTED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE CAN MAKE A MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION.
AND YOU WEREN'T HERE THE LAST MEETING.
I THINK MY POINT WAS, WAS THAT THERE WAS AN ITEM THAT WE VOTED ON ORIGINALLY WHICH HAD TO DO WITH. CAP.
THE SPECIAL ELECTION? CORRECT. WE APPROVE THAT AS A CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION, BUT IT CAME BACK UNDER OLD BUSINESS AND UNDER OLD BUSINESS.
THEN WE DECIDED TO REVISE THE LANGUAGE, SO WE MADE ANOTHER VOTE.
SO MY QUESTION PROCEDURALLY WAS I SAT QUIET ON THAT ITEM THE FIRST TIME WHEN WE HAD A DISCUSSION RELATIVE TO THE CHARTER CAP.
I SAT QUIET ON IT BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT I SIT ON THE BREVARD COUNTY CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION AND I HAD CONCERNS RELATIVE TO US DEALING WITH THE CAP, WHICH THEY HAVE A 3% CAP. AND JUST A DISCLAIMER, MY THOUGHTS AND VIEWS ARE NOT REFLECTIVE OF ANYBODY ELSE ON THE BREVARD COUNTY CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION, BUT I SAT QUIET ON THAT AND I THEN ASKED THE CITY ATTORNEY, WAS THERE ANY POTENTIAL CONFLICT? AND SO I WAS THEN PREPARED AT THE NEXT MEETING UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT IT WAS GOING TO
[01:00:04]
BE BROUGHT BACK UNDER OLD BUSINESS LIKE THE SPECIAL ELECTION VERSUS GENERAL ELECTION DISCUSSION WAS. BUT IT WASN'T.I WAS A LITTLE BIT CONFUSED AS TO WHY IT WAS NOT.
AND SO THEN PROCEDURALLY, I HAD TO MAKE A MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION PER ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER. AND SINCE THERE THEN I MADE THAT MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION.
AND WHICH ITEM? THAT'S FOR THE CAP.
BUT TO MAKE A SHORT STORY LONG, ANYBODY WHO VOTED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE OF THAT COULD STILL POTENTIALLY BRING THAT ITEM BACK AS A VOTE FOR RECONSIDERATION.
CORRECT? COULD I DO IT AGAIN? OR IS WHAT I'M ASKING? YOU KNOW YOU.
I TALKED TO MISS JONES. I KNOW THERE WEREN'T PROCEDURES.
I THINK WHAT HAPPENED IN YOUR CASE THAT WAS DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER CASE IS WHEN HE WANTED IT TO BE RECONSIDERED, HE ESSENTIALLY HAD PROVIDED MATERIAL TO MISS JONES AND IT WAS ON THE AGENDA. SO BEFORE THE COMMISSION KNEW WHAT WAS GOING TO BE RECONSIDERED.
YOU MADE A MOTION WHERE IT WAS, I WANT TO RECONSIDER.
BUT ACTUALLY THE COMMISSION DIDN'T KNOW WHAT EXACTLY YOU WANTED TO COMMIT TO RECONSIDER UNTIL AFTERWARDS.
SO I. YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY A COMMISSION CAN DECIDE THE PROCEDURES, BUT IT MAY BE A BETTER PRACTICE IS IF SOMEBODY WANTS A MOTION TO RECONSIDER THAT THEY HAVE IT ON THE AGENDA, HAVE WHAT THEY WANT ON THERE, AND THEN THE COMMISSION CAN DECIDE THEY CAN LOOK AT THE AGENDA. WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT? I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.
YES, WE WANT TO OR I SEE WHERE HE WANTS TO GO.
IT DOESN'T REALLY CHANGE MY MIND.
NO, I THINK THAT WAS THE PROCESS PROBLEM IS THAT THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHY WE WERE RECONSIDERING IT AND THEY DIDN'T WANT TO CONSIDER IT JUST FOR THE SAKE OF IT.
AND THAT WAS WHAT DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER ONE WHERE THEY HAD CONTEXT ON WHAT SPECIFICALLY WAS BEING CONSIDERED.
AND THAT'S EXACTLY AS CHAIR I'M GOING TO.
KIND OF GET YOU GET YOU ON THE FRAME OF MIND IF YOU WANT SOMETHING TO BE CONSIDERED.
LET'S SAY PRIOR TO THIS MEETING, YOU WOULD HAVE TALKED TO TYRESE.
YOU WOULD HAVE TOLD HER BEFORE SHE PUT THIS PACKET OUT, YOU WOULD HAVE PUT IT IN THERE.
WE READ THE MATERIAL, THE VOTE, THE DISCUSSION HAPPENS, AND THEN WAY UP OR DOWN IT HAPPENS. BUT IF YOU SHOW UP HERE AND SAY, I WANT TO RECONSIDER SOMETHING, OKAY, WE ALREADY VOTED. WE COULD BE RECONSIDERING HERE UNTIL OCTOBER.
GET THE PICTURE. SO IF YOU WANT TO RECONSIDER SOMETHING, PUT IT IN THE PACKET.
PUT IT IN THE PACKET SO WE COULD ABSORB THE INFORMATION.
WE COULD DECIDE WHETHER THIS IS SOMETHING WE WANT TO RECONSIDER OR NOT BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE LIVES.
I THINK WE ALL GETTING PAID 100,000.
MISS. MR. CHAIR, REAL QUICK AND I AGREE WITH YOUR POINT, BUT I SORT OF BEG TO DIFFER BECAUSE AS I SAID, I HAD TO GO BACK AND WATCH THE THE CLIP FROM THE PREVIOUS MEETING BECAUSE HE MOVES SO FAST, EXPEDITIOUSLY WITH THE POINT OF DISCUSSION.
AND SO I WAS GOING TO MAKE MY COMMENTS KNOWN UNDER DISCUSSION.
AND SO I DIDN'T HEAR DISCUSSION.
AND SO I WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PROVIDE CONTEXT THEN, BUT IT MOVES SO EXPEDITIOUSLY, I FELT LIKE THERE WAS A VOTE THAT WAS TAKEN QUICKLY, AND SO I DIDN'T HAVE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT THAT ITEM. SO THAT WAS THE CONFUSION THERE ON MY PART.
BUT I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. SO I WOULD TELL YOU BRING YOU BRING THAT WAS GOING TO BE MY QUESTION INTERJECTED IN THERE FOR DISCUSSION.
ALL YOU WANT IS THE DISCUSSION TO HAPPEN, AND WE COULD DECIDE WHETHER WE WANT TO HEAR OR NOT. BUT YOU NEED TO BRING.
SOMETHING ON THE TABLE THAT MAKES IT VIABLE TO.
BASICALLY IT. AND SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY IT'S IT GOES QUICK.
IT GOES QUICK. YOU CAN BE YOU CAN BE A QUIET PERSON.
AND IF YOU'RE A MEMBER, JUST TO GIVE YOU A SCENARIO, IF YOU'RE A MEMBER OF ANOTHER BOARD OF ANOTHER ENTITY THAT'S HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS, YOU'RE ALLOWED.
THE ONLY TIME YOU ABSTAIN IS WHEN YOU'RE BENEFITING FROM YOUR VOTE.
THAT'S THE ONLY TIME YOU'RE GOING TO ABSTAIN FROM A VOTE.
YOU HAVE TO BE DIRECTLY MONETARILY.
BENEFITING. I WOULD LIKE TO PUT IT GENERALLY.
I THINK. MOTIONS TO RECONSIDER.
AND OTHER DEVIATIONS FROM THE NORM.
WE OUGHT TO FOLLOW ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER.
[01:05:01]
BECAUSE THE MOTION TO RECONSIDER HAS SOME VERY SPECIFIC RULES.AND IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW THOSE RULES, YOU CAN HAVE A MOTION TO RECONSIDER.
ONE OF THOSE RULES IS IT MUST BE ON THE SAME DAY THE DECISION IS MADE BY THE PERSON ON THE PREVAILING SIDE.
SO IF IT'S SOMETHING TWO WEEKS IN THE PAST.
IT MAY NOT BE APPROPRIATE TO RECONSIDER IT AT A LATER DATE.
SO OUR CITY ATTORNEY HAS ACCESS TO ROBERT'S RULES.
AND, YOU KNOW, SHE CAN SHE CAN LET US KNOW WHEN WE RUN AFOUL OF IT, BUT.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I COULD I COULD I COULD TELL I COULD I COULD NOT CUT YOU OFF.
BUT JUST TO TO GIVE YOU A PERSPECTIVE, ROBERT, RULES ARE A A.
A PAMPHLET. LET'S SAY BECAUSE I'VE SEEN IT IN PART IN PAMPHLET FORMS, AND THERE'S A RULE THAT IS PUT IN PLAY.
BUT THE REALITY IS, IS AT THE DISCRETION OF THE CHAIR, MAYOR, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES GOVERNOR, WHOEVER, TO INTERPRET IT AND ALLOW SOME LEEWAY.
FOR SOMETHING TO BE HEARD BECAUSE MAYBE THE PERSON, LIKE HE SAID, HE WAS CONFUSED OVER OUR COUNTY, BOMBAY.
I COULD SEE THAT AS A YOU KNOW, HE THIS IS HIS FIRST TIME DOING THIS RODEO.
OKAY, LET'S. LET'S TAKE IT THERE.
BUT. TO DO IT NOW BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE WHAT YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT IN FRONT OF US AND HAD ENOUGH TIME TO DIGEST IT TO REALLY HAVE A RESPONSE FOR YOU.
SO YOU'RE CATCHING ALL OF US OFF GUARD.
SO BUT IF YOU PUT IT IN HERE FOR DISCUSSION, BECAUSE WE ALL COULD FOR DISCUSSION, IT IS UP TO THE COLLECTIVE BODY TO THEN VOTE IT DOWN OR UP.
THAT'S ALL. I WELL, I JUST WANTED THAT THE DISCUSSION WOULD ENSUE.
SO WHEN A STATE BECAUSE I KNOW YOU ALL KEEP TALKING ABOUT ROBERT'S RULES, WHICH ARE A NICE GUY, BUT EACH BOARD HAS THE ABILITY TO SET THEIR OWN POLICIES, PROCEDURES.
AND IS THAT WHEN YOU ALL SAY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE WE'RE WILLING TO RECONSIDER THINGS AT A LATER DATE, JUST CONTACT TYRESE.
THAT BECOMES YOUR RULE, THAT BECOMES YOUR POLICY.
REAL QUICK AND I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES I CAN GET LOST IN THE SAUCE BETWEEN THE TWO, RIGHT BETWEEN THE COUNTY AND THIS ONE.
AND AND I KNOW THAT SOME OF THE BOARDS THAT I SIT ON, WE TYPICALLY HAVE MORE THAN ONE READING ON AN ITEM, RIGHT? SO YOU HAVE TWO OR THREE READINGS.
SO THAT ALLOWS AMPLE OPPORTUNITY FOR THERE TO BE DISCUSSION.
AND SO I WOULD JUST SAY MAYBE NOT FOR THIS CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION, BUT MAYBE MOVING FORWARD JUST FOR A TRANSPARENCY SAKE OR YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, I HAD SOME CONCERNS THE FIRST TIME WE VOTED ON IT, FIRST TIME THAT ITEM WAS BROUGHT FORTH.
I STILL VOTED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, BUT I DIDN'T NECESSARILY SAY MY ENTIRE PIECE.
AND SO I THINK MOVING FORWARD PROCEDURALLY OR TO INCORPORATE IN THE PROCEDURES THAT POTENTIALLY THERE BE MORE THAN ONE READING ON AN ITEM JUST FOR THERE TO BE AMPLE DISCUSSION. LET ME HIT YOU WITH SOMETHING.
IT'S HE'S UNDERSTANDING THE DIFFERENT BOARDS AND HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND HOW EACH ONE FUNCTIONS. CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION.
IT'S NOT LIKE A PLANNING AND ZONING IS NOT LIKE CODE.
IT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT IT'S NOT LIKE A CRA, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT IS THAT WE NEED TO VOTE TWICE ON IN ORDER TO GO BEFORE COUNCIL.
I'M NOT SAYING A SECOND READING AS INTO VOTING TWICE.
A HEARING. A HEARING IS WHAT I MEAN.
I'M SORRY. SO AND I'M JUST GOING TO SAY THIS OUT, SO FORGIVE MY LANGUAGE.
YEAH, I'M SORRY. YEAH. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, AT THE COUNTY LEVEL, SENATOR HARIDOPOLOS, A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE, HARIDOPOLOS IS OUR CHAIR.
SO HE SORT OF HAS INCORPORATED SOME OF THE SENATE RULES, IN ESSENCE, TO OUR CHARTER PROCEEDINGS. SO WE HAVE THREE HEARINGS ON AN ITEM BEFORE WE TAKE A VOTE.
SO I'M IN A NOT A HEARING, NOT A READING.
AND YOU SEE PROCEDURALLY, HE'S BRINGING IT FROM WHERE? FROM THE STATE.
AND HE'S BRINGING SOMETHING THAT HE DID AT THE STATE TO BASICALLY A LOCAL FUNCTION OR COUNTY FUNCTION. SO IT ALL DEPENDS.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE CITY ATTORNEY WAS SAYING.
GOALPOST. THEY SAY THAT THE WAY WE HAVE IT NOW, WHERE WE CAN ACTUALLY CONTACT STAFF, PUT IT ON THE AGENDA WITH CONTACTS, WITH INFORMATION, I THINK ANYTHING SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE BROUGHT BACK. COME HERE, READ IT.
DETERMINE IF WE WANT TO GO FORWARD AND GO, BECAUSE, AGAIN, WE COULD BE HERE FOREVER,
[01:10:02]
RIGHT? EXACTLY.I THINK ALSO AS AS HE SAID, SOMETIMES THINGS MOVE SO EXPEDITIOUSLY THAT NOT EVERYTHING HAS BEEN SAID THAT WANT IT TO BE SAID.
AND SOMEHOW SOMETIMES THE THE THE METHOD IS OKAY.
WE TALK TO LOTS AND LET'S GO AHEAD AND JUST SHUT IT DOWN NOW.
AND OUT OF RESPECT, SOMETIMES PEOPLE GO AHEAD AND SAY, OKAY, IF YOU WANT TO SHUT IT DOWN, SHUT IT DOWN. BUT BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT SOMETIMES THAT OPPORTUNITY IS NOT GIVEN BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO IT'S GOING TO STAY TILL LATE TONIGHT.
YOU KNOW, IF I'M HERE AT ONE IN THE MORNING, I'M HERE.
AND ONE OF THE MORE BECAUSE I VOLUNTEERED FOR THIS POSITION.
AND SO PERHAPS MAYBE EVEN THOUGH THERE MAY BE COMMENT AFTER COMMENT AFTER COMMENT, WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE.
HERE IS A DISCUSSION AND COMMENTS SHOULD BE ALLOWED AND NOT SHUT DOWN JUST BECAUSE.
WELL, WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR 15 MINUTES.
WELL, SO SOMEONE ELSE HAS SOMETHING TO SAY.
THEY'RE HERE REPRESENTING THEIR POSITION, AND THEY SHOULD HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO SAY NO MATTER HOW HOW LONG IT WAS.
SEE, I'M ABOUT THE SAME. MAYOR.
CHAIR. I AGREE WITH KAY AS SHE AS SHE STATED.
I THINK THE PROCESS THAT WE HAVE ALLOWS FOR THE HUMAN ELEMENT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE ALL ARE AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
I THINK THAT KEEPS US FROM BEING HERE TO ONE IN THE MORNING.
I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE THE PROCESS, SO I APPRECIATE IT.
I JUST I NEEDED SOME CLARITY JUST TO MAKE SURE, BECAUSE WE WERE OPERATING IN ONE WAY AND IT DIDN'T FEEL LIKE WE OPERATE IT IN THE SAME CONSISTENT WAY.
AND TO ME, THAT WAS IT JUST I FELT AWFUL ABOUT THAT.
LIKE, HEY, I WOULDN'T WANT ANYBODY IN HERE TO SAY, I'M GOING TO BRING SOMETHING TO THE TABLE AND WE TREAT THEM DIFFERENTLY THAN WE TREATED EVERYBODY ELSE.
CORRECT. CORRECT. JUST TO TELL YOU, JUST TO TO END ON THIS NOTE, WE HAVE A MEETING ON APRIL 12, 26, THE 10TH AND 24.
TIMES AND DATES THAT WE HAVE MEETINGS, WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THEM.
BUT WE'VE COME TO A POINT THAT IF WE WISH TO ADDRESS SOMETHING AGAIN, WE COULD.
BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO ADDRESS IT, DO IT IN PROPER PROTOCOL BECAUSE WE SET.
MEANING, IF YOU WANT TO BRING SOMETHING UP, MAKE SURE YOU TALK TO THE CLERK THAT IS PUT IN THE IN THE PACKET AND ACCEPT THE FACT OF WHETHER IT'S VOTED UP OR DOWN.
WE'RE NOT HERE TO ARGUE WITH EACH OTHER BECAUSE I CONTINUE TO SAY, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE NOT THE FINAL DECISION ON THIS.
IT SITS UP, THE RESPONSIBILITY SITS UP THERE.
AND WITH THAT, THANK YOU FOR COMING OUT, EVERYONE.
MEETING ADJOURNED.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.