[00:00:01] OKAY. ALL RIGHT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IF WE CAN GO AHEAD AND GET SETTLED, WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED. [CALL TO ORDER:] SO IS THIS THING ON? OKAY. JUST MAKING SURE. I'D LIKE TO CALL THIS WORKSHOP MEETING OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD TO ORDER. WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD WITH A ROLL CALL VOTE. MR. CRAWFORD. YEAH. MR. WARNER. PRESENT. MR. FILIBERTO HERE. MR. HIGGINS HAS ASKED TO BE EXCUSED, MISS JORDAN. WE'RE EXPECTING MR. MCNALLY. HE MAY BE LATE. AND MR. NORRIS. PRESENT. THANK YOU. MISS FRAZIER, PLEASE COME FORWARD. [BUSINESS:] HI. GOOD EVENING. THANK YOU. STARTED. I JUST WANT TO SAY I'M SO SORRY. THIS IS A WORKSHOP MEETING. IT MAY SEEM THAT WE'RE GOING A LITTLE BIT OUT OF ORDER. WE WILL BE HAVING OUR REGULAR MEETING AT 6:00 WITH THE AGENDA AS POSTED. QUESTIONS FROM THE PUBLIC RELATED TO OUR WORKSHOP MEETING. IF THERE IS TIME AT THE END OF THE 5:00 HOUR, WE WILL ENTERTAIN THOSE. IF NOT, WE WILL MOVE DIRECTLY INTO OUR 6:00 MEETING. MEMBERS OF THE BOARD WHO HAVE QUESTIONS, AND WE GET TO THE 6:00 MEETING. WE WILL PAUSE. WE'LL HAVE OUR REGULAR 6:00 MEETING. OUT OF RESPECT TO THE PUBLIC. WHOEVER SHOWS UP TO ENGAGE IN THAT MEETING. AND THEN AFTERWARD, WE'LL REENGAGE. ANY QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE WORKSHOP? OKAY. SORRY, MISS FRAZIER. GO AHEAD. OH, NO. THAT'S FINE, THANK YOU. SO, AT THE BEHEST OF THE BOARD, STAFF HAS PREPARED HAS COLLECTIVELY PREPARED A REVIEW OF OUR DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS AND PROCESSES. AND FOLLOWING THE PRESENTATION, THERE COULD BE Q&A. WE'RE HOPING THAT THERE'S ENOUGH TIME AND LET US PROCEED. HELLO. HELLO, MR. MCNALLY. SO, AS YOU ALL KNOW, SOME OF THESE SLIDES WILL BE FAMILIAR TO A LOT OF YOU. BUT AS YOU KNOW, THE CITY WORKS TOGETHER TO PROVIDE THE BEST TECHNICAL INFORMATION TO OUR DECISION MAKING BODIES SO THAT THEY CAN MAKE EDUCATED DECISIONS FOR THE COMMUNITY. IN FACT, OUR STAFF PRESENT TONIGHT HAS PROBABLY OVER 100 YEARS COLLECTIVELY OF EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE. AND WE ARE HERE TO TRY TO SUMMARIZE IN 45 MINUTES HOW YOU GO THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS. NOW I KNOW THAT YOU'RE ALL VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE IDEA THAT THE CITY TOOK IT UPON THEMSELVES TO UPDATE THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THEN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT, OR, I'M SORRY, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AND THEN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT FOR YOU ALL THAT THIS IS WHERE THE NEW LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IS LOCATED, AND IT'S THE CODIFIED VERSION. ON THIS TAB IN THE GROWTH MANAGEMENT PAGE. THE TRACK CHANGE OF THE UPDATE IS IN THAT TAB. ALONG WITH THE THE NOTES FROM OUR NUMEROUS STAKEHOLDER WORKSHOPS IN THE COMMUNITY. INPUT THAT WAS RECEIVED. OUTLINING WHAT WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT AND LOOKING FOR IN THE PHASE TWO CHANGES. OH, LET ME GO BACK AND JUST. HOW COME I CAN'T GO BACK, YOU KNOW. YES. I WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT HERE IS THE WEBSITE. THERE'S AN EMAIL ADDRESS ON THE WEBSITE. AND IN THIS TAB, IF THE PUBLIC EVER HAS ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO ASK STAFF NOW. PALM BAY HAS SOME FEW OPPORTUNITIES AND CONSTRAINTS THAT WE HAVE TO WORK AROUND AS WE DEVELOP THE CITY. SO A LOT OF OUR CODES ARE SIMILAR. OUR PROCESSES CAN BE SIMILAR TO OTHER CITIES, BUT WE HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WHAT OUR OWN COMMUNITY PROVIDES, RIGHT? SO WE KNOW THAT BECAUSE OF GDC, A LOT OF THE CITY IS FRAGMENTED, IS IS HAS ISOLATED NEIGHBORHOODS SURROUNDED BY LARGE CANALS, HAS TWO LANE, YOU KNOW, GRID SYSTEM TYPE OF ROADS? 80% OF THE CITY IS RESIDENTIAL, PROVIDING FOR A LACK OF A COMMUNITY CENTER OR COMMERCIAL AND EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES. AND WE DON'T HAVE AN IDENTIFIABLE DOWNTOWN. THOSE ARE SOME OF THE CONSTRAINTS, BUT SOME OF THE GREAT STUFF IS WE HAVE RIVER RIVERFRONT, WE HAVE GREAT PARKS. WE DO HAVE GREEN FIELDS FOR NEW DEVELOPMENT, WHICH WE ARE BIG PROPONENTS OF BEING ABLE TO INCLUDE THIS MIXED [00:05:09] USE AND YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL USES. AND WE HAVE A REALLY ENGAGED COMMUNITY THAT WAS A THAT WAS A JOKE. ANYWAYS, WHAT THE STAFF REALLY IS LOOKING FOR IS NOT THE DRIVABLE SPRAWL THAT YOU SEE IN THE MALL OF AMERICA'S, AS WE HAVE ALL EXPERIENCED. BUT REALLY MORE OF BUILDING COMMUNITIES. AND WE SAY THAT ALL OF THE TIME WE NEED TO BUILD A COMMUNITY, COMMUNITIES AND NOT JUST SPRAWL. OUR DEVELOPMENT REVIEW PROCESS IS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD. I KNOW YOU'VE ALL SEEN THIS BEFORE. AN APPLICATION COMES IN, IT'S GOING TO TAKE TWO ROUTES. IT'S GOING TO DO YOUR PUBLIC HEARING ROUTE OR YOUR ADMINISTRATIVE ROUTE. OF COURSE, THE PUBLIC HEARING ROUTE INCLUDES THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD, WHICH THEN MAKES THE RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL EITHER TO APPROVE, DENY OR APPROVE WITH WITH CONDITIONS. AND THEN CITY COUNCIL MOVES FORWARD EITHER WAY. THE ADMINISTRATIVE ROUTE IS DONE BY STAFF AND IS FOR REGULAR SITE PLANS, CONSTRUCTION PLANS THAT THEN MOVE INTO SITE WORK PERMITS AND WELL, THAT'S ABOUT IT. AND THEN OF COURSE, FROM LAND DEVELOPMENT, IT ROLLS INTO THE, THE BUILDING GOING VERTICAL. SO IT WOULD BE THEN TAKEN OVER BY THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. THIS TABLE IS REALLY KEY TO KNOWING WHERE THE REVIEWS AND THE AND THE REVIEW AUTHORITIES ARE. SO FOR EACH APPLICATION THAT IS SUBMITTED, THIS ALSO HELPS THE COMMUNITY AND THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY KNOW WHAT ROUTE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE PRIOR TO TAKING ON A PROJECT SO IT WILL SHOW, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING HAS TO GO TO A PREAMP. ALMOST EVERYTHING NEEDS A COMMUNITY PRESENTATION PLAN. AND BUT THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT DO NOT REQUIRE GOING TO P AND Z OR GOING TO THE BOARDS AT ALL. AND SO THIS TABLE IS VERY USEFUL FOR EVERYONE. YES I'M SORRY LINDA. THAT SCREEN WE TURNED TOWARDS THE BOARD SO WE CAN SEE IT BETTER. YES. LET ME SEE IF I CAN. DO YOU WANT TO DO THAT? I GOT THREE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO DO THIS FOR YOU. IT. IT'S NOT PART OF YOUR PACKET, AND I APOLOGIZE. THAT PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN. THANK YOU. I THINK IT'S FINE. I THINK THIS ONE'S FINE. YEAH. LEAVE THIS ONE TOWARDS THE ALTHEA. YEAH, FOR THE. LEAVE THIS ONE TOWARDS THE THE COMMUNITY, PLEASE. IT'S FINE. YEAH. THERE YOU GO. SO AND LET'S MOVE ON. BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THERE'S OTHER, MORE KEY PRESENTATIONS THAT YOU REALLY NEED TO SEE. I KNOW YOU'VE SEEN THIS BEFORE. I JUST PRESENTED THIS TO ALL OF YOU IN JANUARY. THIS IS, AGAIN, THE PLANNING ZONING BOARD RESPONSIBILITIES. AGAIN, IT'S THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENTS, REZONINGS VARIANCES. OF COURSE, OUR PUDS AND WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR PUBLIC NOTICING IN THE AGENDA PACKETS. THE ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVALS, AGAIN, ARE MORE SITE PLANS. THE VARIANCES THAT ARE MORE ADMINISTRATIVE, SUCH AS I NEED TO HAVE ADD THREE MORE PARKING SPACES THAN IS REQUIRED. OKAY. YOU GET A WAIVER IF YOU PROVE THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO NEED THEM OR YOU DO NEED THEM. THAT'S THE ADMINISTRATIVE VARIANCES THAT ARE TYPICALLY OR I LIKE A RELIEF FROM ADDING THREE CANOPY TREES. AND THIS IS WHY. AND THEN WE CAN WE CAN PROVIDE THAT KIND OF ADMINISTRATIVE RELIEF THAT DOESN'T NEED TO COME TO THE BOARD. I KNOW THAT YOU'VE ALSO BEEN INITIATED IN THIS TIMELINE, SO I'LL GO VERY QUICKLY THROUGH IT. ONCE AN APPLICATION COMES IN, THERE IS A COMPLETENESS CHECK THAT IS DONE BY OUR CLERK TO MAKE SURE THAT THE APPLICATION IS COMPLETE, THAT THEY'VE SUBMITTED EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE GOING TO NEED IN ORDER TO DO THE REVIEW, SUCH AS THE NATURAL RESOURCE ASSESSMENT THE ACKNOWLEDGMENTS, AUTHORIZED ACKNOWLEDGMENTS OF WHO OWNS THE PROPERTY, A SURVEY, A AT LEAST A PRELIMINARY PLAN OR A CONCEPTUAL PLAN, MAPS SHOWING IF IT'S A REZONING OR A LAND USE CHANGE. WHAT'S THE CURRENT AND WHAT'S THE REQUEST? SO ONCE THAT IS COMPLETE, THEN WE WILL DISTRIBUTE TO THE DRC OUR DEVELOPMENT REVIEW COMMITTEE, WHICH IS MADE UP OF ALL OF THE DEPARTMENTS IN THE CITY. PUBLIC SAFETY. UTILITIES. PUBLIC WORKS. WE HAVE PROFESSIONAL CONSULTANTS THAT REVIEW OUR TRAFFIC AND OUR STORMWATER NOW. AND ONCE THAT GOES OUT, THEN, ACCORDING TO FLORIDA STATUTE, THEY HAVE 30 DAYS TO BRING [00:10:07] BACK THEIR COMMENTS. AND EVERYTHING IS DONE IN THE IMS PORTAL, THE ONLINE PORTAL. IT REALLY HELPS TO KEEP A CLEAN RECORD OF WHEN IT WAS SUBMITTED, WHEN THE REVIEW STARTED, WHEN THE 30 DAYS IS UP, WHO HAS, YOU KNOW, GIVEN THE COMMENTS AND PROVIDED THEIR REVIEWS, THAT IS THEN SENT OUT ELECTRONICALLY TO WHOEVER THE AUTHORIZED AGENTS ARE OF THAT PROJECT, AND THEN THEY CAN TAKE AS LONG AS THEY WANT TO COME BACK. THERE IS CONVERSATIONS IN BETWEEN, OF COURSE, BUT WE REALLY, REALLY STRIVE TO KEEP EVERYTHING IN ALL CORRESPONDENCE IN THE SYSTEM BECAUSE THIS REALLY, REALLY HELPS LATER ON DOWN THE ROAD. WELL, I EMAILED SO-AND-SO AND THEY SAID, I DON'T HAVE TO DO A TRAFFIC STUDY. WELL, NO, SO-AND-SO DOESN'T WORK FOR THE CITY ANYMORE. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT APPROVAL. SO WE REALLY, REALLY AND THIS IS A TRUE STORY. SO WE TRY TO REALLY ENCOURAGE OUR TEAM MEMBERS, KEEP EVERYTHING THROUGH IMS, PLEASE. SO IN ACCORDANCE WITH FLORIDA STATUTE, YOU HAVE THREE REVIEWS. SO YOU GO THROUGH THE 30 DAYS THEY RESUBMIT. YOU GO THROUGH ANOTHER 30 DAYS. SOMETIMES YOU GET THROUGH IN TWO TIMES. IF IT'S A THIRD REVIEW AND WE STILL HAVEN'T COME TO A MEETING OF THE MINDS, THEN WE ASK FOR A MEETING WITH THE APPLICANT AND THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM TO TO FIND OUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO. WHAT DO YOU WHAT DO WE NEED? WHERE'S WHERE'S THE MISCALCULATION NOW, ACCORDING TO FLORIDA STATUTES, AT THAT POINT THE DEVELOPER CAN PROCEED FORWARD WITHOUT THE SUPPORT OF THE STAFF OR THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE STAFF. THEY RARELY DO THAT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO GET IT RIGHT AND MAKE SURE THAT IT HAPPENS IN A IN A GOOD MANNER. ANYWAYS, THREE TIMES. AND THEN AT THAT POINT IT WILL COME TO PLANNING AND ZONING, AND THEN YOU BRING THE RECOMMENDATION TO THE COUNCIL. REALLY? AS SIMPLE AS THAT. NOW, I KNOW PUDS ARE QUITE A POPULAR ZONING USE HERE IN THE CITY. IT GIVES YOU A LITTLE FLEXIBILITY IN THE DESIGN THAT YOU PRESENT. IT'S IT'S THE SAME PROCESS, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU HAVE ZONING AND YOU HAVE A SITE PLAN. YES, SIR. QUICK QUESTION. DECISIONS WE MAKE, SAY TONIGHT? YES. WOULD THEY BE BROUGHT FORWARD TO THE CITY COUNCIL TOMORROW NIGHT, OR IS IT LAY UNTIL THE FOLLOWING MEETING OF THE CITY? WE STRIVE VERY. I KNOW THAT OFTENTIMES WE HAVE P AND Z BECAUSE I'M THERE BOTH NIGHTS.. SO WE HAVE BNZ AND CITY COUNCIL BACK TO BACK. WE STRIVE VERY HARD NOT TO PUT IT ON THE VERY NEXT NIGHT'S AGENDA. THAT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR OUR CLERK TO TURN IT AROUND THAT QUICKLY. BUT THE VERY NEXT MEETING IT WOULD BE. SO TONIGHT WILL BE ON MAY 15TH. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND THAT'S THE FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN. NOW THE BIG CHANGE THAT WE MADE FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE SAT HERE LONGER PUDS IN THE, IN THE PAST, BEFORE THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE UPDATE, THEY WERE TEMPORARY ZONINGS THAT WERE GIVEN. AND THEN WITHIN ONE YEAR, YOU HAD TO COME UP WITH YOUR FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND THAT THAT WOULD GIVE YOU YOUR FINAL ZONING AS A PUD. THAT IS NOT TYPICALLY STANDARD. THAT IS NOT TYPICALLY HOW IT'S DONE. SO NOW WE'VE REVISED THAT PUDS THAT COME BEFORE YOU WILL HAVE THE PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN. THEY WILL GET THEIR ZONING. THEN THEY HAVE UP TO FIVE YEARS WITH EXTENSIONS, BUT TYPICALLY THREE YEARS TO THEN SUBMIT THEIR THEIR FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN. THAT GIVES US THE REAL MEAT AND GUTS AS TO WHAT THAT DESIGN WILL BE PROVIDING, OR WE WILL BE GETTING FOR THAT DESIGN, AND THAT WILL BE APPROVED AT THE CITY COUNCIL LEVEL WITH THE DA AND THE FS. OKAY. TREE PROTECTION, TREE REMOVAL, LAND CLEARING. THIS NEW CODE LANGUAGE WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND DEVELOPERS TO INTERPRET ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA. WE'LL WE'LL GO INTO IT FURTHER. BUT ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA, YOU WILL SEE THE REVISIONS THAT WE ARE PROPOSING TO MAKE AND CLARIFY, HELP CLARIFY WHEN A PERMIT IS REQUIRED. BASICALLY, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SUBMIT FOR A SEPARATE LAND CLEARING OR TREE PERMIT. TREE REMOVAL PERMIT. IF YOU ALREADY HAVE AN APPROVED SITE PLAN, OR YOU'RE GOING THROUGH THAT PROCESS OF THE APPROVED SITE PLAN OR BUILDING PERMIT. YOU CANNOT CLEAR LAND OR REMOVE TREES UNLESS YOU HAVE APPROVAL TO DO SO IN THE CLEAR CUTTING WAY. NOW, IF IT'S YOUR PROPERTY AND YOU HAVE YOUR HOUSE AND YOU HAVE A HAZARDOUS TREE OR A TREE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, PULLING UP YOUR DRIVEWAY, THAT'S, THAT'S THAT'S FOR YOU TO DECIDE. [00:15:02] AND I'M LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU, MR. MCNALLY. I'M SORRY. IT'S FOR ALL OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO DETERMINE THAT IS NOT FOR THE CITY TO ASK FOR A PERMIT. WE DON'T HAVE THE STAFF TO CHECK ON THAT ANYWAY, SO THAT'S JUST ASKING FOR PROBLEMS AT THIS POINT. SO WE'RE WE'RE CLARIFYING THESE SECTIONS AND YOU WILL WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT MORE AT THE MEETING. THE TREE CREDITS AGAIN, THIS WAS ASKED FOR REPEATEDLY BY OUR COMMUNITY TO TRY TO BOLSTER MORE OF OUR TREE PROTECTION AND NATURAL RESOURCE PROTECTIONS ON THESE LARGE PROPERTIES THAT ARE GETTING DEVELOPED. I MEAN, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE TREE MITIGATION FUND SO CLEAR CUT AWAY AND PAY INTO THE FUND. I MEAN, THAT'S HOW IT'S BEEN. WITH THIS, WE'RE GIVING TREE CREDITS. YOU HAVE TO DO A LANDSCAPE PLAN. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU REMOVE ALL THE TREES. YOU STILL HAVE TO DO A LANDSCAPE PLAN. AND THAT IS STILL. AND THAT IS ACTUALLY APPLICABLE TO EVEN SINGLE FAMILY INFILL HOMES. YOU HAVE TO DO YOU HAVE TO PUT IN FIVE TREES? I THINK IT IS. SO IF YOU'RE ABLE TO PRESERVE SOME NATURAL AREAS OR SOME OF THE, THE PRESERVATION TREES THE I'M SORRY, THE PROTECTED TREES, THEN YOU'LL GET CREDIT TOWARDS YOUR LANDSCAPE PLAN. AND THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT ALL OF THIS IS FOR. IT'S INCENTIVIZING TREE PROTECTION, WHICH I KNOW THE COUNCIL WAS VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF WHEN WE APPROVED THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE UPDATE BACK IN SEPTEMBER. AND THEN THIS IS MORE OF A GUIDELINE, IF YOU WILL, TO HELP YOU GO THROUGH THE TREE MITIGATION FUND CALCULATION AS FAR AS HOW MANY TREES YOU'RE REMOVING OR HOW MANY TREES YOU'RE KEEPING, AND THEN WHAT YOU HAVE TO PAY INTO THE FUND. SO THAT'S IT FOR ME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO TANYA, WHO'S GOING TO TALK ABOUT DENSITY AND SETBACKS. IT'S ACTUALLY VERY COOL. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO THE FIRST ONE. DENSITY COMPENSATION THAT I CAN. HOLD ON. OKAY, SO I'M TANYA RAMOS, PRINCIPAL PLANNER, AND I'M GOING TO GO OVER VISUALIZING DENSITY. THE FIRST ITEM IS A FLOOR AREA RATIO, WHICH IS ACTUALLY A MEASURE OF INTENSITY FOR NONRESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. AND THERE'S A COUPLE OF EXHIBITS UP THERE. BUT BASICALLY THE FLOOR AREA RATIO, IT'S ALSO CALLED THE FA IS CALCULATED BY DIVIDING THE GROSS FLOOR AREA BY THE GROSS ACREAGE OF THE DEVELOPMENT SITE. FOR EXAMPLE, THE MIDDLE OF THE LARGER EXHIBIT. THERE YOU CAN SEE A FAR OF ONE. SO IF YOU WERE BUILDING A ONE STORY BUILDING, IT WOULD TAKE UP THE ENTIRE SITE. AND IF YOU WERE TO MAKE THAT A TWO STORY BUILDING, IT WOULD TAKE UP HALF OF THE SITE. AND. SO THEN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DENSITY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. DENSITY IS THE NUMBER OF DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE. FOR EXAMPLE A LOT OF PALM BAY THE AREAS ARE LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL FUTURE LAND USE. AND SO THAT WOULD BE UP TO FIVE UNITS PER ACRE. AND ON HERE WE HAVE AN EXAMPLE SHOWING SIX. SO THAT'S KIND OF SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SEE THROUGHOUT A LOT OF THE OLDER EXISTING LOTS IN THE CITY. AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO GO OVER BUILDING SETBACKS. SO BUILDING SETBACKS ARE THE PORTION OF A LOT THAT REMAINS AFTER THE SETBACKS HAVE BEEN PROVIDED. SO ALL OF THE LOTS WILL HAVE A FRONT AND A REAR SETBACK. AND THEN THERE'S SIDE SETBACKS. AND FOR YOUR PRIMARY STRUCTURE AND FOR ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, THEY MAY BE DIFFERENT. SO THIS IS LIKE IMAGINE YOUR PRIMARY STRUCTURE. IT CAN GO IN THE BUILDABLE AREA AS SHOWN HERE. AND I ALSO WANTED TO POINT OUT A LOT OF LOTS WILL HAVE EASEMENTS ON THEM. A LOT OF THE TIMES THE EASEMENT WILL MATCH UP WITH THE SETBACKS, BUT NOT ALWAYS. [00:20:01] SO AN EASEMENT IS AN AUTHORIZATION FROM A PROPERTY OWNER TO AN ENTITY WHEREBY A PARTIAL USE OF THE LAND IS GRANTED FOR A SPECIFIC PURPOSE, SUCH AS UTILITIES OR DRAINAGE. SO THE PROPERTY BELONGS TO THE LOT OWNER, BUT SOMEONE ELSE HAS THE RIGHT TO OWN TO TO USE THAT EASEMENT. SO WHEN YOU'RE BUILDING, YOU CAN'T BUILD IN THE SETBACKS AND YOU CAN'T BUILD IN THE EASEMENTS, WHICHEVER IS GREATER. YOU HAVE TO STAY OUT OF BOTH. SO THESE ARE SOME OF THE TYPICAL LOTS YOU WOULD FIND IN THE RS2 ZONING THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF PALM BAY. THIS IS AN AERIAL VIEW. YOU CAN SEE ONE HOUSE THERE KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE. YOU KNOW, THEY FIT A LITTLE POOL. IT LOOKS LIKE THEY HAVE A SHED. THEY STILL HAVE PLENTY OF YARD. AND THIS IS BASICALLY ALSO WHAT THEIR STREET VIEW WOULD LOOK LIKE. SO I CHECKED THE HOUSES THERE IN THE PICTURE. THOSE ARE ALL OVER 2000 SQUARE FOOT TOTAL AREA. IN RS2 ZONING, THEY HAVE TO HAVE A MINIMUM OF 1200 SQUARE FOOT LIVING AREA. AND THE SETBACKS FOR THESE LOTS ARE 25 FROM THE FRONT PROPERTY LINE. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE ROAD, IT'S THE LINE YOU SEE DRAWN THERE. AND THEN 25 FOOT FROM THE REAR. AND THEY EACH HAVE EIGHT FEET ON THE SIDES. SO THAT MEANS THERE WOULD BE 16FT BETWEEN TWO HOUSES IF THEY BUILT AT THE SETBACK LINE. SO SAME GROUP OF HOUSES COMPARED TO 40 FOOT LOTS WHICH WERE GETTING A LOT OF REQUESTS FOR IN PUD ZONING. JUST WANTED TO SHOW A COMPARISON OF HOW CLOSE THESE HOUSES ARE, AND YOU KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE COMPARED TO A LOT OF THE EXISTING DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU WOULD SEE IN PALM BAY. SO BOTH OF THESE COMMUNITIES ARE ZONING ARE REQUIRED, 1200 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM LIVING AREA HOMES. AND THEN THIS IS A STREET VIEW OF SOME 40 FOOT LOTS. YOU CAN SEE A LITTLE BIT ON THE SIDES THERE, THE GRASS WHERE IT'S UP AGAINST THE DIRT. SO THAT FIVE FEET LOOKS REALLY TINY AND THEY LOOK PRETTY CLOSE TOGETHER, BUT THEY WOULD BE TYPICALLY, LIKE, LONGER, NARROWER HOUSES. AND THEN THIS IS A STREET VIEW OF AN EXISTING 40 FOOT LOT SUBDIVISION, AGAIN WITH THE FIVE FOOT SETBACKS. AND THEN COMPARE TO SOME OF THE EXISTING LOTS THAT ARE DEVELOPED AND HAVE EIGHT FOOT SIDE SETBACKS. SO THEN ALSO WE WE'RE GETTING A LOT OF REQUESTS IN THE CITY FOR 50 FOOT LOTS IN PUD DEVELOPMENTS. THE PUDS ALL CAN SET THEIR OWN MINIMUMS. SO THE ONES PICTURED HERE ARE ALL AT LEAST 1600 SQUARE FOOT LIVING AREA. AND COMPARED TO THE SAME HOMES WHICH ARE ALL OVER 2000FT² IN THE EXISTING RS TWO ZONING. SO EVEN THOUGH THESE ARE A LITTLE BIT BIGGER THEY'RE STILL NOT A LOT OF SPACE FOR LIKE IF THEY WANTED TO BUILD A POOL THERE, SOME OF THEM WOULD BE PRETTY LIMITED. AND THIS IS JUST A FRONT VIEW OF WHAT THOSE 50 FOOT LOTS LOOK LIKE. THESE HAVE FIVE FOOT SIDE SETBACK. AND AS YOU CAN SEE, STILL NOT A WHOLE LOT OF SPACE IN BETWEEN THE RESIDENTS. AND THEN THIS IS JUST AN AERIAL VIEW OF THE SAME 50 FOOT LOTS. SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY'RE VERY LIMITED ON THE SIDE. THEY HAVE A LITTLE ROOM IN THE BACK. BUT JUST FOR COMPARISON, SOME OF THE 80 FOOT, YOU KNOW, EXISTING LOTS, THEY HAVE A LOT MORE SPACE TO ACCOMMODATE THEIR, THEIR WISHES ON THEIR PROPERTY. SO WE SOMETIMES RUN INTO PROBLEMS WHERE PEOPLE IN THE PUDS, THE VERY LIMITED SPACE, AND THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT GOING IN. SO WE JUST WANTED TO HELP YOU VISUALIZE HOW LIMITING SOME OF THESE SMALLER LOTS CAN BE FOR THE RESIDENTS. AND THAT WAS THE END OF MY PORTION. I THINK WE'RE SAVING QUESTIONS FOR THE END. OKAY. YES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YES. OKAY. HI, I'M DEBBIE FLYNN, SENIOR PLANNER. AND WELCOME TO SITE PLANNING 101. THE PROJECT CASE IS THE DAIRY QUEEN ON MALABAR ROAD RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET. I WILL BE GOING OVER THIS PROCESS OF REVIEWING A SITE PLAN. [00:25:02] STEP ONE. SOMEONE HAS AN IDEA. A BUSINESS OWNER IS SEEKING TO DEVELOP A DAIRY QUEEN LOCATION. THEY SELECT A LOCATION AND REQUEST APPROVAL FROM THE CITY. SO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT STAFF CONFIRMS THE LOCATION IS IN CONFORMANCE WITH THE FUTURE LAND USE AND ZONING MAPS, AS YOU'VE SEEN ON YOUR SCREEN. THE LAND USE IS FOR COMMERCIAL AND THE ZONING IS RESTRICTED COMMERCIAL. AND WE HAVE AN AERIAL SHOWING THE LOCATION. AND USUALLY THIS IS DONE AT THE PRE-APPLICATION MEETING TO MAKE SURE THIS IS AN APPROVED USE. AND THEY COULD GO FORWARD. AND ONCE THEY CAN GO FORWARD THEY GO TO STEP TWO. THEY SUBMIT THEIR SITE PLAN AND THEY SUBMIT THEIR SITE PLAN THROUGH THE IMS PORTAL. THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE ELEVATIONS. THE LOT WIDTH, THE LOT DEPTH, THE BUILDING COVERAGE, THE BUILDING FLOOR AREA OR THE FA, THE BUILDING HEIGHT, PARKING LOT LAYOUT, THE DRIVE THRU LANES, THE LANDSCAPING, LIGHTING, SIGNAGE LOCATION, BUILDING HEIGHT, BUILDING SETBACKS, OUTDOOR SEATING LOCATION, AND EVEN THE TRASH ENCLOSURE. THE LAND DEVELOPMENT DIVISION REVIEWS THE SITE PLAN TO ENSURE IT COMPLIES WITH THE COMMERCIAL REQUIREMENTS OUTLINED IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND AS YOU SEEN ON THE NEXT SCREEN, WE ENSURE THAT ALL THOSE ITEMS ARE MET AND WE CIRCLE. WE EVEN HAVE A CHECKLIST AS SHOWN. SORRY. ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE. ON THE RIGHT HAND CORNER, WE HAVE A SITE PLAN CHECKLIST THAT EACH PLANNER USES TO REVIEW THEIR SITE PLAN TO DOUBLE CHECK OUR WORK TO MAKE SURE WE DID NOT MISS ANYTHING. NEXT IS STEP THREE. WE'RE NOT THE ONLY DEPARTMENTS THAT REVIEW A SITE PLAN. AS LISA MENTIONED, WE HAVE A DEVELOPMENT REVIEW COMMITTEE WHICH COMPOSES OF THE PUBLIC WORKS, UTILITIES, FIRE AND POLICE AND THE SURVEY DEPARTMENT FOR PUBLIC WORKS. THEY REVIEW THE TRAFFIC, THE DRIVEWAY LOCATION AND SPACING, SIDEWALKS, STORMWATER AND DRAINAGE, AND FOR TRAFFIC. THE PEAK TRIPS FOR THE DAIRY QUEEN IS 9090 PM PEAK HOUR TRIPS AND OVER 1300 HUNDRED DAILY TRIPS A DAY. HOWEVER, LATELY WE'VE BEEN NOTICING AN INTAKE BECAUSE IT'S NEW, SO THERE'S PROBABLY MORE TRIPS RIGHT NOW, BUT EVENTUALLY THIS WILL BE THE PEAK TIME IN DAILY TRIPS. AND ALSO THE UTILITIES DEPARTMENT REVIEWS, THE DESIGN, THE AGREEMENTS THAT THEY HAVE TO TAP INTO THEIR UTILITY AND LOCATION. THE WATER MAIN CONNECTION WELL FOR IRRIGATION AND THE POLICE AND FIRE REVIEW, THE SAFETY FOR POLICE AND FOR FIRE. THEY HAVE TO MAKE SURE THERE'S FIRE HYDRANTS AND THERE'S EVEN A DESIGN THAT THEY PROVIDE. THE APPLICANT PROVIDES FOR TRUCK, THE FIRE TRUCK TURNAROUND TO MAKE SURE THE FIRE TRUCK COULD GET IN AND OUT SAFELY. AND FOR SURVEY, THEY LOOK AT THE TOPO, THE CULVERTS, THE MANHOLES AND THE WELL, JUST LOOKING TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS A SUITABLE SITE TO BUILD A DAIRY QUEEN ON. AND ALL DEPARTMENTS COLLABORATE TO ENSURE THE DAIRY QUEEN PROJECT DOES NOT RESULT IN ANY ISSUES FOR THE TOWN. STEP FOUR, PERMITTING, THE OWNER MUST OBTAIN A SIGNED PERMIT. THEY ALSO MUST OBTAIN THE SITE WORK PERMIT. THIS IS ANY GROUND CONSTRUCTION, ROADWAY, DRIVEWAY, PARKING LOT, SIDEWALKS, ETC. AND THEY WORK WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT AS WELL. THAT'S ANYTHING THAT GOES VERTICAL THE ELECTRICAL, THE PLUMBING, THE AC, STRUCTURAL AND ARCHITECTURAL PLANS. AND THIS IS ALL SUBMITTED AGAIN THROUGH OUR IMS PORTAL TO KEEP A HISTORY OF THE SITE PLAN AND AS WELL AS THE PERMITS, SO WE CAN SEE THE PICTURE IN THE FUTURE. IF THEY DO ANY IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SITE, WE CAN GO BACK AND LOOK THROUGH THE IMS PORTAL. WHEN APPROVED, IT MOVES FORWARD TO CONSTRUCTION, WHICH IS STEP FIVE. CONTRACTORS MUST ADHERE TO THE CITY'S APPROVED SITE PLAN, WHICH EVERY PLANNER SIGNS AND STAMPS, AND THE APPLICANT MUST UPLOAD THE SIGNED AND STAMPED SITE PLAN TO THE IMS PORTAL WHEN THEY SUBMIT THEIR PERMITS. SO WE KNOW THIS IS THE APPROVED PLANS THAT EVERY DEPARTMENT AGREED UPON, AND THEY MUST HAVE A SIGN ON SITE WITH THE APPROVED PERMITS TO SHOW THAT THEY GOT ALL THEIR APPROVALS TO START CONSTRUCTION. AND STEP SIX IS OPENING DAY. HERE IS SOME PICTURES WITH STAFF FOR THEIR OPENING DAY. AND AFTER INSPECTIONS ARE COMPLETED, THE DAIRY QUEEN OPENS AND PEOPLE ENJOY ICE CREAM AND THE CITY EARNS TAXES TO KEEP SERVICES RUNNING. AND WHY DOES CITY PLANNING MATTER? CITY PLANNING ENSURES THE COMMUNITY REMAINS BOTH SAFE, VIBRANT, FOSTERING AN ENVIRONMENT THAT PROMOTES SUSTAINABILITY, QUALITY OF LIFE AND LONG TERM GROWTH AND SAFEGUARDS THE ENVIRONMENT, [00:30:06] PRIORITIZES, PRIORITIZES PUBLIC SAFETY AND IMPROVES TRAFFIC FLOW. AND YES, IT BRINGS US ICE CREAM. SO TANYA AND ALTHEA HAVE PREPARED THIS BECAUSE THEY'RE. THEY'RE GOING TO. I'M SORRY. DEBBIE. I SAW TANYA'S NAME ON THE SITE PLAN. IT'S IN MY HEAD. THEY'RE PRESENTING TO THE SIXTH GRADERS. WHEN FOR? FOR PROFESSIONAL DAY OR SOMETHING? FOR CAREER DAY? AT THE END OF THE MONTH. THAT'S GREAT. YEAH. GREAT. SO SHE'S GOING TO BE GREAT. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ARE THERE ANY OTHER PRESENTATIONS? NO, SIR. OKAY. WE'VE GOT A HEALTHY AMOUNT OF TIME LEFT, SO I'LL FIRST BRING IT TO THE BOARD. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE OF STAFF OR ANYTHING THAT YOU'VE SAW, SEEN OR OTHER QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE COME WITH THIS EVENING? YEAH, I HAVE A QUESTION. I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF LIKE, FOR INSTANCE, LIKE THE DAIRY QUEEN SITE PLAN, LET'S SAY THAT PLOT OF LAND DOESN'T DOESN'T WORK SOMEHOW, OR IT GETS DENIED. DOES THE CITY ASSIST IN FINDING A NEW AREA, OR IS THAT ON THE APPLICANT TO SEARCH WITHIN THE CITY? THAT'S ON THE APPLICANT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? NO. OKAY. AT THIS POINT, WHAT I'M GOING TO DO IS OPEN IT UP TO THE PUBLIC. WE DO HAVE SOME TIME. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION RELATED TO OUR PRESENTATIONS THIS EVENING, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. AND YOU'LL BE HEARD. BILL BATTEN, 586 OCEAN SPRAY STREET, SOUTHWEST. WHEN REVIEWING THE APPLICATION FORM AND IT DOESN'T MEET THE CRITERIA FOR WHAT THE CURRENT ZONING IS, AND THE BUILDERS WILL SAY, I'LL, I'D LIKE TO CHANGE THE ZONING FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY THEY'RE REQUESTING QUESTIONING IF THEY FAIL TO MEET THAT THEIR CRITERIA, THEIR PLANS. HOW LONG BEFORE THAT LAND REVERTS BACK? OR DOES IT REVERT BACK TO WHAT OUR ORIGINAL COMPREHENSIVE PLAN HAD? IT'S VERY COMMON. WE'LL HAVE BUILDERS COME UP AND SAY, I'D LIKE TO REZONE THIS TO SOMETHING ELSE, SAY A HIGHER DENSITY. I'D LIKE TO REZONE IT FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY WANT. WELL, THEN THEIR SAY THEIR DEVELOPMENT FALLS THROUGH. DOES DOES IT GO BACK TO WHAT THE ORIGINAL REZONING WAS? BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN THIS HAPPEN BEFORE. BUILDERS COME IN. THEY REZONE 30, 40, 50, EVEN 100 ACRES AND THEN THE BUILDING FALLS THROUGH. BUT WE'VE ALREADY CHANGED THE ZONING BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST STEPS. SO IT MESSED UP WHAT OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED AT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THIS ONE OR DO YOU WANT TO PUNT? SURE. NOW, IF THE CITY HAS APPROVED A ZONING CHANGE. FIRST OF ALL, THE ZONING, THE CHANGE IN ZONING IS GOING TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN BECAUSE BY STATUTE, YOUR ZONING, YOUR ZONING HAS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. THAT ZONING THEN BECOMES BASICALLY THE PROPERTY OWNER IS VESTED TO THAT ZONING. IF THEY DON'T DEVELOP IT, THE DEVELOPMENT IS NOT TIED INTO THE NEW ZONING. SO THE ZONING DOES REMAIN. IT DOES NOT REVERT. IT DOES NOT EXPIRE. BECAUSE THAT ZONING BECOMES A YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE IN LAW SCHOOL, YOU'RE TAUGHT WHEN IT COMES TO PROPERTY, REAL PROPERTY, YOU HAVE YOUR BUNDLE OF RIGHTS. AND IF YOU'VE ACHIEVED AND OBTAINED A ZONING FOR THAT PROPERTY, THAT ZONING BECOMES ONE OF YOUR BUNDLE OF RIGHTS. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S VESTED ONTO THAT PROPERTY. SO THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU CAN THEN SELL YOUR PROPERTY FOR, BECAUSE THAT NOW BECOMES SOMETHING THAT PROPERTY IS VESTED FOR, FOR EITHER YOU OR FOR THE NEXT PURCHASER TO TO DEVELOP ACCORDINGLY. WE'LL HAVE A QUESTION ALONG THOSE LINES. HOW MANY TIMES CAN A PROPERTY CAN CAN A PROPERTY BE REZONED, OR CAN IT BE CHANGED? AS LONG AS THE APPLICATIONS ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE THE UNDERLYING LAND USE THERE IS THE FLORIDA STATUTES DOES NOT PROVIDE A LIMIT. YOU DON'T GET A LIMIT AMOUNT OF BITES OF THE APPLE AS LONG AS YOU HAVE CONSISTENCY WITH THE YOUR UNDERLYING LAND USE. MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY, I THINK A LOT OF THE CONFUSION OR QUESTIONS, NOT NECESSARILY CONFUSION, BUT THE QUESTIONS COME WITH THE LAND USE CHANGE. SO WE HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT TAKES A SNAPSHOT OF THE CITY AT THE TIME THAT IT IS CREATED. CORRECT. AND SO THERE'S LAND THAT HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, DESIGNATED AS RESIDENTIAL OR [00:35:04] SOMETHING ELSE FOR A LONG TIME. WHEN YOU UPDATE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY GO OUT AND CHANGE PEOPLE'S LAND USE AT THIS POINT. SO AND THEN ALSO IN THE CITY OF PALM BAY, THERE'S BEEN A GREAT DEAL OF PROPERTY THAT IS ANNEXED IN, AND A LOT OF IT HAS BEEN AGRICULTURAL UNDER THE COUNTY LAND USE. SO IT REQUIRES ITS LAND USE TO BE CHANGED. AND ONCE THAT LAND USE CHANGES, THAT'S THAT'S IT. THEY CAN CHANGE IT BACK TO SOMETHING ELSE. BUT TYPICALLY THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN. WHAT I WANTED TO SAY IS THAT I FORGET NOW IT'S GONE, BUT THAT'S BASICALLY WHY WE DO IT. OH, THAT PEOPLE HAVE THEIR PROPERTY, RIGHT? IS TO HAVE A PIECE OF PROPERTY AND BE ABLE TO CHANGE THE LAND USE AS LONG AS IT IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE FLORIDA STATUTES AND THE CITY'S MASTER PLAN FOR THOSE PROPERTIES AND AS WE KNOW, IN THE CITY OF PALM BAY THE COUNCIL SAYS IT REPEATEDLY. THEY'RE LOOKING FOR MORE. EMPLOYMENT CENTERS AND COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL PROPERTIES. SO I. BELIEVE THAT'S PART OF THE QUESTION. YES, SIR. YOU MENTIONED COUNTY LAND USE. IS THERE EVER A CASE WHERE COUNTY LAND USE AND CITY LAND USE, LAND USE CAN BE IN CONFLICT WITH EACH OTHER? OR IS THERE SOMETHING COUNTY LAND USE COULD OVERRIDE CITY LAND USE? NO. NOT NECESSARILY. WHEN YOU ANNEX INTO THE CITY, YOU'RE REQUIRED TO CHANGE THE LAND USE. A FUNNY EXAMPLE THOUGH IS THE RECENT LAND USE CHANGE. OUT ON MICCO ROAD THAT JUST HAPPENED WHERE IT HAD ALREADY ANNEXED INTO THE CITY, BUT IT'S LAND USE WITH THE COUNTY HAD NEVER BEEN CHANGED, SO IT WAS PART OF THE CITY FOR QUITE SOME TIME, AND IT STILL HAD COUNTY AGRICULTURE. AND I BELIEVE THAT'S BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE AN AGRICULTURAL LAND USE, AND SO THEY WERE ABLE TO MAINTAIN IT AS AGRICULTURAL AND RUN THEIR CATTLE OR THEIR AGRICULTURAL USES, WHICH I BELIEVE WAS A TREE FARM FOR THE MOST PART. AND BE ABLE TO ENJOY A LOWER TAX BASE BECAUSE OF THAT, BECAUSE AGRICULTURAL LAND TYPICALLY IS A LOWER TAX BASE, WHICH I THINK EVERYONE KNOWS. SO THAT'S THAT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE. NOW IT HAS BEEN CHANGED TO MIXED USE CMU, I BELIEVE. AND WHEN WE DISCUSSED COUNTY LAND USE IT'S A JURISDICTIONAL ISSUE. WHEN WE SAY COUNTY LAND USE THAT'S LAND USE. THAT'S GOVERNANCE. BECAUSE THE PROPERTY IS UNINCORPORATED AND THEREFORE THE COUNTY'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND ITS LAND USE REGULATIONS ARE GOING TO GOVERN THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY. ONCE THE PROPERTY IS ANNEXED, THEN IT BECOMES IT COMES IN WITHIN THE CORPORATE LIMITS OF THE CITY. AND NOW, THEREFORE, THE CITY'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS IS GOING TO GOVERN AND IT'S BECOME IT FALLS WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THE CITY. AND AT THAT POINT, THEN WE CAN THEN IMPOSE OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN REGULATIONS UPON IT AND THEN ACCORDINGLY, THEN ITS ZONING, AS LONG AS IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THAT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. I THINK THE EASIEST WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT, IT'S KIND OF A LAYERED YOUR LAND USE IS YOUR UNDERLYING USES. AND UNDER THAT. SO YOU HAVE YOUR LAND USES AND THEN YOUR ZONING IS THAT LAYER ON TOP. AND YOU CAN ONLY HAVE CERTAIN ZONING DISTRICTS CAN BE WITHIN THAT LAND USE DISTRICTS. AND THEY HAVE TO BE CONSISTENT. IF YOU HAVE AN INCONSISTENCY YOU'RE VIOLATING STATE STATUTE. YOU CANNOT HAVE THAT INCONSISTENCY, WHICH MEANS YOU CAN'T HAVE AN INDUSTRIAL ZONING UNDER A RESIDENTIAL LAND USE. SO THE LAND USE IS IS MUCH. AND THAT'S WHY ALSO WHEN I WHEN I EXPLAIN EVERY BEFORE HEARINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER A MATTER IS QUASI JUDICIAL OR NOT, LAND USE, LAND USE MATTERS ARE ACTUALLY LEGISLATIVE IN NATURE, WHICH MEANS YOU'RE SITTING AS A LEGISLATIVE BODY. YOU'RE TAKING IN ALL THE INFORMATION. YOU'RE ESTABLISHING KIND OF THE POLICY FOR THE CITY WHEN YOU GO INTO ZONING. THAT'S WHY IT'S QUASI JUDICIAL, BECAUSE NOW YOU'RE EFFECTUATING THAT POLICY. SO LAND USE CHANGES ARE REVIEWED, AND YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION OTHER MATTERS AND MAKING THOSE CHANGES THAT DIFFERENTIATE IT FROM A ZONING CHANGE, WHERE YOU REALLY HAVE TO TAKE THOSE SPECIFIC ASPECTS IN ORDER TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES. AND THEN THE REVIEW FOR THAT DIFFERENTIATES IT, BECAUSE THEN YOU HAVE TO HAVE EVIDENCE THAT HAS TO BE EVIDENCE SUPPORTED. A LAND USE CHANGE. ALL IT HAS TO BE IS THAT THE CHANGE IS REASONABLE. AND THAT'S THAT'S WHAT THAT'S WHAT WILL BE SEEN IF IT'S REVIEWED OR CHALLENGED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I SEE WE HAVE A QUESTION IN THE AUDIENCE. YES, MA'AM. OH, I'M GOING TO LET HER GO FIRST. SORRY. GOOD EVENING. JUDY CRANDALL, 751 PEBBLE BEACH AVENUE NORTHEAST. ACTUALLY, IT'S NOT SO MUCH AS A QUESTION AS A REQUEST. [00:40:03] I'M ASKING ALL DEPARTMENTS, INCLUDING PLANNING AND ZONING AND COUNCIL. WHEN YOU'RE REVIEWING A CHANGE IN EITHER THE LAND USE OR THE ZONING OR WHATEVER, COULD YOU PLEASE, PLEASE CONSIDER SAVING OUR WETLANDS AND OUR WILDLIFE? PLEASE USE IT AS A BARGAINING CHIP OR A NEGOTIATION, WHATEVER IT TAKES. BUT WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF NATURAL LANDS AND MORE DEVELOPERS ARE COMING IN. AND SO I'M ASKING YOU, PLEASE TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION. THE SECOND THING IS I FORGOT. OH. PALM TREES. OUR NAME IS PALM BAY, BUT WHEN YOU DRIVE THROUGH OUR CITY, VERY FEW, VERY FEW BUSINESSES OR OTHER ENTITIES. ANYTHING. WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PALMS. AND ONE THING IF WE STARTED ASKING THE DEVELOPERS AND THE BUSINESSES TO CONSIDER PALMS IN THEIR LANDSCAPE SITE WE HAVE THERE'S 2 OR 3 BEAUTIFUL POEMS THAT ARE SELF-CLEANING. THEY DON'T HAVE THOSE UGLY BROWN FRONDS HANGING DOWN, AND THOSE ARE THE ROYAL PALMS. I'D LOVE TO SEE ROYAL PALMS IN PALM BAY, THE ADONIDIA PALM AND THE FOXTAIL PALMS. SO THEY SELF-CLEAN. AND I WOULD JUST LIKE FOR YOU TO BE VERY CONSCIENTIOUS ABOUT BEAUTIFYING WITH PALMS AND SAVE OUR WILDLIFE AND OUR WETLANDS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MA'AM. ALL RIGHT MA'AM. HI. MY NAME IS LENA GONZALEZ SUAREZ. I AM A RESIDENT OF PALM BAY, BUT MY ADDRESS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS. BUT MY QUESTION IS, WHEN A DEVELOPER CHANGES THE ZONING IN A PARTICULAR LOT AND IT IS CHANGED NOW HE WANTS TO DEVELOP SOMETHING. BUT THE CITY, THE RESIDENTS WANT TO STOP IT. HOW MUCH WEIGHT IS GIVEN TO THE RESIDENTS FOR THAT DEVELOPMENT NOT TO TAKE PLACE ONCE THE ZONING IS ALREADY APPROVED? WELL, THE ZONING IS ALREADY APPROVED, BUT THE CHANGE IS ALREADY APPROVED. BUT THE DEVELOP THE THE ACTUAL DEVELOPMENT ISN'T YET. OKAY, THAT MAKES SENSE. I KNOW IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE I'VE BEEN ASKED THIS QUESTION BY MULTIPLE ACTUAL GOVERNING BODIES, AND THAT IS USUALLY I GET I GET DIFFERENT. LOCAL GOVERNMENTS HAVE ASKED ME POINT BLANK, HOW DO WE DENY APPLICATIONS FOR BUILDING OR DEVELOPMENTS? AND MY ANSWER IS ALWAYS THE SAME. AND IT ALWAYS ROOTS DOWN TO THE MY FIRST DAY OF LAW SCHOOL, WHICH THEY ALWAYS TEACH US. I DON'T KNOW IF I'VE IF I'VE TOLD YOU THIS LITTLE ANECDOTE, BUT THE FIRST DAY OF LAW SCHOOL, THEY TEACH US ONE THING, AND THAT THE ANSWER TO EVERYTHING. WHEN YOU LEAVE THREE YEARS OF LAW SCHOOL, THE ONLY ONE THING YOU'RE GOING TO LEARN IS THAT THE ANSWER TO EVERYTHING IS IT DEPENDS. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT YOU, AS A BOARD AND CITY CITY COUNCILS AS GOVERNING BODIES, ARE REALLY LIMITED TO WHAT IS PERMISSIBLE UNDER THE LAW. AND WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO AN APPLICATION FOR REZONING OR FOR DEVELOPMENT, YOU'RE BOUND BY YOUR DECISION AS A AS A MATTER THAT'S QUASI JUDICIAL IS MUST BE SUPPORTED BY COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. SO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE PROVIDES YOU CRITERIA THAT THE APPLICANT HAS TO BRING IN. SO THE DEVELOPER IN THIS CASE OR A PROPERTY OWNER DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A DEVELOPER. IT COULD BE AN INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNER. THEY'RE GOING TO COME IN AND THEY HAVE TO MEET THAT CRITERIA FOR THE CHANGE THEY'RE ASKING FOR. THEY'RE GOING TO SUPPLY THE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT THEIR REQUEST MEETS THE CRITERIA UNDER THE CODE, AND THEREFORE SHOULD BE GRANTED. IF THERE'S GOING TO BE A PARTY OR SOMEONE WHO'S GOING TO COME TO OPPOSE IT, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BRING EVIDENCE THAT IS GOING TO SUPPORT THAT POSITION. AND THAT EVIDENCE HAS TO BE WHAT THE COURTS HAVE DEEMED AS COMPETENT AND SUBSTANTIAL. AND THAT IS USUALLY THAT IS EVIDENCE THAT COULD BE THAT COULD BE REASONABLY FOUND TO SUPPORT THE BASIS THAT IT'S SUPPORTING. AND BECAUSE THE AND THE, YOU KNOW, PLANNING AND ZONING IS ALL THEY DO IS PROVIDE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE END THE CITY COUNCIL IS THE FINAL DECIDING [00:45:06] BODY. THEY ARE GOING TO WEIGH THE EVIDENCE THAT'S PRESENTED BY THE PROPERTY OWNER. THEY CAN WEIGH THE EVIDENCE BY RESIDENT GROUPS, BY ENVIRONMENTAL ADVOCATES, BY ANYONE ELSE. THEY HAVE TO LOOK. THEY HAVE TO TAKE THE EVIDENCE, THEY HAVE TO WEIGH IT. AND THEN THEY DECIDE WE'RE GOING TO APPROVE, BECAUSE BASED ON WHAT THE APPLICANT HAS SHOWN US, THEY MEET THE STANDARDS THAT OUR CODE SAYS ENTITLES THEM TO THIS DECISION, OR WE'RE GOING TO DENY IT BECAUSE BASED ON THE EVIDENCE THAT THESE GROUPS, THESE RESIDENTS, THESE ORGANIZATIONS HAVE SHOWN US, THEY DON'T MEET IT. THAT'S THAT'S IT. THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE BOUND BY. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO JUST WILLY NILLY GO. YOU KNOW WHAT? I DON'T LIKE THIS GUY. IT'S GOING TO BE DENIED BECAUSE THAT'S A FAST TRACK TO THE CIRCUIT COURT. AND THE CIRCUIT COURT IS GOING TO REVERSE THE MATTER. BRING IT BACK INTO YOUR HANDS WITH PROBABLY A MANDATE SAYING YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REVIEW IT AND YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE TO APPROVE IT. IF THEY COME BACK WITH THE EVIDENCE OR THEY'RE GOING TO THROW OUT THE EVIDENCE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RE EVALUATE THE EVIDENCE AND REEVALUATE IT AND BASE AND BASE YOUR DECISION ON COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. IT ALSO MAKES OUR JOB OR MY JOB AS THE CITY ATTORNEY EASIER WHEN YOUR DECISION IS BASED ON EVIDENCE, BECAUSE THEN THAT MAKES IT EASIER FOR ME TO THEN MAKE OUR MAKE THE PRESENTATION ON BEHALF OF THE CITY. IN DEFENSE OF YOUR DECISION, I'VE TOLD THIS TO MULTIPLE CITIES THAT I'VE REPRESENTED. PERSONALLY, I DON'T CARE WHICH WAY YOU RULE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. THE ONLY THING I CARE ABOUT IS THAT PLEASE MAKE YOUR DECISION BASED ON THE LAW SO THAT I CAN PRESENT THAT IN FRONT OF A JUDGE WITH A STRAIGHT FACE. THAT'S ALL I CARE ABOUT. I HAVE A I'M GOING TO GUIDE YOU IN THAT CASE TO GUIDE. AND THAT'S WHY I'M REALLY STRINGENT ON YOU GUYS FOLLOWING THAT BASIS THAT YOU MAKE YOUR DECISIONS BASED ON THE EVIDENCE, WHETHER IT'S TO APPROVE OR DENY. I DON'T I DON'T CARE WHICH WAY OR ANOTHER. AND I'M NOT GOING TO STRAY YOU ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, BUT JUST THAT IF YOU DECIDE TO APPROVE THAT, YOU HAVE THE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT. IF YOU DECIDE TO DENY THAT YOU HAVE THE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT, BECAUSE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, IF IT'S CHALLENGED, I HAVE TO MAKE THAT ARGUMENT IN FRONT OF THE COURT IN ORDER TO TO ZEALOUSLY, ZEALOUSLY DEFEND AND ADVOCATE ON BEHALF OF THE CITY. I HAVE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION REGARDING THAT THEN. OKAY. SO IF IF THE CITY COUNCIL DECLINES TO GO AHEAD AND ALLOW THE DEVELOPER TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY, AND A NEW DEVELOPER COMES IN AND WANTS TO DEVELOP THE SAME THING BECAUSE THE ZONING HAS BEEN CHANGED. SO NOW THEY A NEW DEVELOPER WANTS TO TRY AND APPLY AND PUT THAT BUILDING IN. IS THERE ANY PRECEDENT OVER THE FACT THAT IT WAS ALREADY DENIED SOMETHING SIMILAR? NO. NO, BECAUSE IT'S STILL GOING TO COME DOWN TO IT COMES FORWARD ON A CASE BY CASE. SO IF IF THERE WAS IF IT'S IT'S REALLY GOING TO DEPEND ON WHAT'S PRESENTED BEFORE THE COUNCIL. THE COUNCIL, I MEAN AND WHAT EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED TO SUPPORT IT. IF IT'S GOING TO BE SIMILAR, THE EVIDENCE THAT'S GOING TO SUPPORT THE DENIAL IS GOING TO BE THE SAME. IF THE QUESTION WAS, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES I'VE BEEN ASKED WHAT WHAT CONSTITUTES COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE TO DENY. WELL, IF A DEVELOPER COMES IN AND SAYS, WELL, I'VE GOT A TRAFFIC STUDY THAT SHOWS THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO RESULT IN A DEGRADATION OF THE LEVEL OF SERVICE OF THE ROADS SERVICING THIS. AND I'VE GOT AN OPPOSITION GROUP THAT COMES IN WITH ANOTHER TRAFFIC STUDY THAT IS MORE RECENT, THAT DOES A DIFFERENT TYPE OF CALCULATIONS OR DIFFERENT METHODOLOGY, AND SHOWS THAT THE DEVELOPMENT, BASED ON THE CRITERIA THAT THE DEVELOPERS PRESENTED, SHOWS THAT THE ROAD WILL FAIL, THAT IT'LL IT'LL DEGRADE THE LEVEL OF SERVICE THAT WOULD CONSTITUTE COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR FINDINGS, SAYING, WELL, WHILE YOU DEVELOPER HAS SHOWN ME A TRAFFIC STUDY FROM ENGINEER A, I HAVE A STUDY HERE FROM ENGINEER B THAT SHOWS ME THAT YOU KNOW, THEIR STUDY SHOWS THAT IT'S GOING TO FAIL. AND I BELIEVE THAT'S THAT'S THE BASIS FOR MY DENIAL. AND NO COURT, ONCE IT GETS APPEALED, NO COURT IS EVER GOING TO ACTUALLY, THE COURTS DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO SECOND GUESS YOUR JUDGMENT. THEY'RE JUST GOING TO LOOK AT IT AND SAY, WELL, HERE'S THE COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE THAT THIS CITY COUNCIL RELIED ON, AND THEREFORE WE'RE NOT GOING TO WE'RE NOT GOING TO SIT IN YOUR SHOES AND SECOND GUESS YOU. THEY'RE JUST GOING TO SEE. DID YOU RELY ON WHAT WAS THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU RELIED ON PROPER TO BASE YOUR DECISION? THAT'S ALL THE APPELLATE COURT'S GOING TO LOOK AT. SO THAT'S GOING TO DEPEND. THIS REALLY IS SORRY. IT REALLY IS ON A ON A ON A CASE BY CASE FACTUAL BASIS. BUT IT ALL STILL COMES DOWN TO WHAT THESE BOARDS AND WHAT A CITY IS ALLOWED TO EXAMINE AND REVIEW IN ORDER TO MAKE A DETERMINATION ON WHETHER TO APPROVE OR [00:50:05] DENY AN APPLICATION, WHETHER IT BE FOR A WHEN IT COMES TO EVIDENCE, WHETHER THAT'S FOR A ZONING CHANGE OR FOR A MAJOR, MAJOR DEVELOPMENT PLAN, OR FOR ANYTHING ELSE THAT COMES BEFORE YOU AS A AS A QUASI JUDICIAL MATTER. SITE PLANS DON'T COME BEFORE YOU THAT THEN THAT'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE MATTER BEFORE STAFF. BUT AT THAT POINT, NOW WE'VE GONE WE'VE GONE FURTHER. WE'VE ALREADY GOT A ZONING. WE'VE ALREADY GOT MANY THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN THAT HAVE BEEN DONE THAT YOU'RE AT YOUR FINAL AT YOUR FINAL STAGES HERE. THERE IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR RESIDENTS TO. IF THERE'S AN APPROVAL, A RESIDENT CAN MAKE A CHALLENGE TO CHALLENGE THE DECISION OF THE CITY COUNCIL. IT'S A TOUGH ROAD TO TO GO. AND THE LEGISLATURE HAS MADE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR RESIDENTS TO DO THAT BECAUSE OF THE AT LEAST WHEN IT COMES TO CHALLENGING COMPREHENSIVE PLANS, THEY'VE NOW PUT ATTORNEY'S FEES ON THE HOOK FOR IF YOU DON'T PREVAIL, YOU WILL BE YOU WILL BE LIABLE FOR THE WINNING SIDE'S ATTORNEY'S FEES. WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH. THAT ANSWER WAS VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. BUT I JUST WANT TO STATE THAT. ALL THAT BEING SAID, HAVING SAID ON THESE BOARDS AND COUNCILS MYSELF NOT HERE IN PALM BAY, BUT YOU ARE THE, THE THE CITIZENS ARE HEARD AND WHATEVER THEY STATE IS CONSIDERED. SO I DON'T WANT TO WAYLAY WHATEVER, STOP THE COMMUNITY FROM BRINGING FORWARD ANY OF THEIR CONCERNS, BECAUSE IT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO STOP THAT DEVELOPMENT FROM GOING IN. BUT SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, THE DEVELOPER THEMSELVES WILL HEAR AND THE COUNCIL WILL SUGGEST, AND THEN SOME CONCESSIONS CAN BE MADE, YOU KNOW, BIGGER BUFFERS OR, YOU KNOW, A WALL OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE. SO IT'S ALWAYS GREAT TO HEAR FROM THE RESIDENTS, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR LEGAL TEAM TELLS YOU. THANK YOU. I THINK WE HAVE TIME FOR ONE MORE QUESTION. HELLO, SUSAN CONNOLLY, ATTORNEY RODRIGUEZ, I'VE HEARD YOU SPEAK THAT SO MANY TIMES, AND I STILL. IT DEPENDS. YEAH. OF ME UNDERSTANDING IT. BUT I THINK THIS IS THE MOST CRITICAL THING, WHAT HE WAS SAYING. IT'S CRITICAL THAT EACH OF YOU UNDERSTAND IT, BECAUSE THERE IS A FLAW IN OUR PROCESS HERE. AND IT'S SHOWING UP WHEN CITIZENS WHEN WHEN AN OWNER COMES TO, TO DEVELOP A PIECE OF PROPERTY FROM WHAT YOU PRESENTED, THE FIRST STEP IS THAT YOU HAVE AN IDEA. YOU GO IN, YOU TALK, YOU GET A PERMIT, YOU LOOK AT EVERYTHING WILL FIT. AND THE PROCESS BEGINS, HOWEVER, IT SEEMS TO ME. AND THEN IF IT DOESN'T QUITE FIT, THEN YOU COME AND DO A LAND USE OR A ZONING CHANGE. BUT WHAT I'M SEEING IN THE AUDIENCE IS THAT SEEMS TO BE NOT THE NORM. THE NORM IS PEOPLE ARE BUYING PROPERTY AND THEY ARE COMING AND GETTING IT. LAND USE AND REZONED FIRST BECAUSE THEY HAVE ANOTHER IDEA FOR THAT. A BIGGER IDEA THAN WHAT THE LAND WAS PURCHASED SO MANY TIMES WHEN THEY COME BEFORE YOU. THEY HAVE PURCHASED A PIECE OF LAND AND THEY PRESENT. THE QUESTION IS, YOU BOUGHT THE LAND, YOU KNEW WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO. WHY NOW? ARE YOU CHANGING IT AND NEEDING MORE DENSITY OR DIFFERENT USE? WHY IS IT TO RESELL THE PROPERTY TO MAKE IT MORE VALUABLE? ONCE, I GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS YOU ALL ARE IN A VERY CATCH 22 POSITION. REALLY, BECAUSE YOU ARE THE ONES THAT CAN RECOMMEND A DENIAL OF LAND USE AND ZONING. BUT IT'S VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE AT THE STAGE WHEN IT'S BRAND NEW AND OUR CITY IS UNDEVELOPED. THINK ABOUT IT. YOU DO A TRAFFIC STUDY RIGHT THEN AND THERE. YEAH. TRAFFIC FITS, THE HOUSES FIT. EVERYTHING FITS. LOOKS GOOD. WHY NOT? WHY NOT DO A LAND USE AND REZONE? IT SEEMS TO BE COMPATIBLE AND IT MEETS THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. I'VE SEEN IT OVER AND OVER, BUT GUESS WHAT? THAT IS NOT DEVELOPED UNTIL 3 OR 5 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD. BY THAT TIME WE'VE GOT LOTS OF TRAFFIC BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN OTHER DEVELOPMENTS. [00:55:06] IT'S SO, SO I JUST TALK TO YOU ALL TO DO THE BEST YOU CAN. AND ONE THING THAT YOU CAN DO IS TO SLOW DOWN THE PROCESS, TO REALLY QUESTION THE PROCESS OF THE LAND USE AND THE REZONING. THE SECOND THING YOU CAN DO IS PUT CONDITIONS ON THIS. CONDITIONS. AS JUDY CRANDALL SAID, REGARDING WETLANDS, YOU CAN MAKE SURE THOSE WETLANDS ARE PROTECTED. I ALSO WANT TO CALL YOUR ATTENTION TO WHAT IS THE WETLAND MITIGATION POLICY. DO YOU ALL KNOW? DO YOU ALL KNOW WHAT IT MEANS WHEN THEY GET WETLANDS MITIGATED? IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THOSE LANDS ARE PRESERVED. IT COULD BE THAT AN OWNER JUST HAS TO PAY A FEE. AND THAT FEE GOES INTO THE NATURE CONSERVANCY. AND THE NATURE CONSERVANCY IS CHARGED WITH PURCHASING LAND IN LIEU OF OR COMPARABLE TO WHAT IS HERE. THE LAND IS NOT IN PALM BAY. THE LAND IS. IT'S OUT OF OUR CONTROL. IT MAY OR MAY NOT GET PURCHASED. SO DON'T FIRST PUT THE CONDITION ON WITH THE WETLANDS. BUT NO, EVEN OUR WETLAND MITIGATION POLICY QUESTION IT. THEY'RE DOING THE BEST JOB THEY CAN, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THIS PROCESS CONTINUES TO BE REVISED AND LOOKED AT AND AND SAVES OUR PROPERTY, PRESERVES OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND GIVES CITIZENS MORE INPUT AND MORE PARTICIPATION IN THESE DECISIONS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I MAY ASK ONE QUESTION. OKAY. YEAH, IT SHOULD BE QUICK. YES OR NO? I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERY APPLICANT HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME TO COME BEFORE PLANNING AND ZONING. IF THEY HAVE A, A REZONING OR A LAND USE CHANGE. WOULD THAT BE CORRECT? NO MATTER HOW TERRIBLE THE IDEA MAY BE. YES, SIR. OKAY, SO IF I WANT TO PUT INDUSTRIAL IN THE MIDDLE OF RESIDENTIAL AND I WANTED TO GAMBLE ON IT, YOU WOULD. YOU WOULD BRING IT BEFORE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD. THAT'S CORRECT. THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO BRING IT FORWARD EVEN WITHOUT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION AND SUPPORT. THANK YOU. ABSOLUTELY. AND LET ME CLARIFY ABOUT THE WETLAND. IN ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE WETLAND, MITIGATION IS THAT IS PREEMPTED BY THE STATE. THE STATE TAKES CARE OF ALL WETLAND, PERMITTING THE JURISDICTIONAL REVIEWS. AND THEN THE MITIGATION AND MITIGATION IS, YES, THEY THEY CAN WIPE OUT A WETLAND AND PAY FOR MITIGATION BANK TO WITH CREDITS. IT'S SOMEWHAT COMPLICATED. I USED TO DO IT, BUT THAT'S THE WETLAND MITIGATION IS NOT THE CITY'S RESPONSIBILITY. OKAY. WETLANDS ARE FALL UNDER THE STATE. WHAT MISS CONNORS IS TALKING ABOUT OR I APOLOGIZE, IS TALKING ABOUT IS OUR LONG AGO ESTABLISHED SCRUB JAY HABITAT. ENVIRONMENTAL FUND. SO FOR EVERY HOUSE THAT IS THAT IS BUILT IN THIS ONE SCRUB. JAY AREA OF THE CITY, THERE'S AN ENVIRONMENTAL FEE THAT IS THEN PAID TO. SAINT JOHN'S OR I'M SORRY, THE NATURE CONSERVANCY. WE ARE DIGGING DEEPER INTO IT. BECAUSE WE'D LIKE TO HAVE THAT ANSWER OURSELVES. SO WE ARE DIGGING INTO IT. GO ON WITH THE MEETING. WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL HAPPENING IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS PERMIT AND THIS PLAN. IT'S NOTHING ILLEGAL. IT'S NOTHING WRONG. WE'RE JUST LOOKING TO SEE WHERE THEY'RE BUYING LAND AND WHERE THAT COULD BE. SO THAT'S THAT THAT ANSWER. SO I'M GOING TO MOVE FORWARD. IF ANY MEMBER OF THE BOARD NEEDS TO EXCUSE THEMSELVES FOR THE RESTROOM OR SOMETHING, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DO SO. BUT WE ARE GOING TO ROLL RIGHT INTO OUR REGULAR MEETING, THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD. REGULAR MEETING. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.