[00:00:01]
ALL RIGHT. GREETINGS, EVERYBODY. I CALL THIS MEETING OF THE CITIZENS ACCOUNTABILITY TASK FORCE.
MONDAY FOR MONDAY, AUGUST 3RD, 2026 TO ORDER.
FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS IS FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
I'LL ASK MISS JUDY TO LEAD US TONIGHT. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS.
ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
THANK YOU. JUDY. ALL RIGHT. FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF
[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
2026 OF JULY OR JULY 9TH OF 2026. ENTERTAIN A MOTION.SO MOVED. SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE.
I ASK FOR VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? SAY NAY. PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. NEXT ORDER OF BUSINESS IS PUBLIC COMMENT.
[PUBLIC COMMENTS]
ANYONE WITH PUBLIC COMMENT FOR THIS EVENING. PLEASE STEP FORWARD.BILL BATTEN, 586 OCEAN SPRAY STREET, SOUTHWEST.
I'D JUST LIKE TO REMIND THE BOARD THAT ALONG WITH POTENTIAL INCREASE IN THE HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION TAX, THAT 60% OF THE RESIDENTS IN PALM BAY THAT ARE ON SEPTIC ARE ALSO FACING A MANDATORY CONVERSION SYSTEM, WHICH IS APPROXIMATELY $20,000 FOR EACH ONE OF THOSE RESIDENTS.
THAT HAS TO BE ACCOMPLISHED IN 2030. SO WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT POTENTIAL IMPACTS THAT THE INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNER IS GOING TO BE LOOKING AT, THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT'S ON THE KEEP IT ON THE BACK BURNER IN YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS.
DOCTOR ALLEN MILES 350 GARVEY ROAD, SOUTHWEST.
I HAVE 5 OR 6 THINGS. NUMBER ONE, IT APPEARS THAT ONLY ABOUT 50 TO 60% OF PALM BAY RESIDENTS WILL GET THE BENEFIT EFFECT BEFORE 2031. SO THAT'S A FAIRLY 5050. AROUND 60% BENEFIT.
SO THAT MEANS 40% OF THE RESIDENTS WILL ACTUALLY LOSE OUT.
NEW HOME OWNERS HAVE TO WAIT 4 TO 5 YEARS TO GET THE DISCOUNT, SINCE THEY WON'T HAVE THEIR HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION AND THERE'S A 4 OR 5 YEAR WAITING FOR THAT. RENTERS WILL END UP PAYING MORE. AND WE HAVE A HIGH AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE ACTUALLY RENTING IN THE CITY.
MORE EXPENSIVE HOMES WILL GAIN A GREATER BENEFIT THAN HOMES THAT ARE LESS EXPENSIVE.
I WOULD SAY TO VOTE NO. LET FLORIDA'S CONGRESS KNOW THAT THEY NEED TO REWRITE IT AS A MORE GRADUATED SCALE OVER A LONGER TIME FOR THE CITY TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS. AND I'D ALSO LIKE TO SAY THAT IN FIVE YEARS, IT'S ANTICIPATED WE WILL LOSE CLOSE TO $50 MILLION IN REVENUE, BUT SOMEHOW WE'LL BE PAYING THAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SIR.
SEEING ANYONE ELSE COMING TO THE PODIUM. I WILL CLOSE THIS PORTION OF THE PUBLIC COMMENT.
[NEW BUSINESS]
WE'LL MOVE ON TO NEW BUSINESS DISCUSSION OF THE PROPERTY TAX REFORM.MR. FELDMAN. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. VICE CHAIR, MEMBERS OF THE TASK FORCE.
FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW ME, I'M LEE FELDMAN AND I'M THE FACILITATOR FOR THIS GROUP.
AND THIS EVENING ORIGINALLY WE WERE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE ANNUAL COMPREHENSIVE FINANCIAL REPORT, BUT THAT IS STILL IN THE PROCESS OF BEING CONCLUDED.
SO THE CHAIR AND I DISCUSSED ALTERNATIVE DISCUSSIONS.
SO I THOUGHT I WOULD TAKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT PROPERTY TAX REFORM IS IN TERMS OF WHAT THE BALLOT IS, AND ALSO SOME INITIAL SENTIMENT THAT THAT IS HAPPENING AROUND THE STATE WITH REGARD TO THIS.
THIS IS A NEUTRAL PRESENTATION. IT DOESN'T GIVE AN OPINION ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
[00:05:04]
IT IS PROVIDED ONLY FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES TO YOU.AFTER I GO THROUGH THE PRESENTATION AND FEEL FREE AS AS YOU WANT TO ASK QUESTIONS AS WE GO ALONG, I WILL TRY TO ANSWER THEM TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY.
AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE PRESENTATION, I THOUGHT WE WOULD TRY AND EXERCISE WITH THE THE TASK FORCE WHERE I WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH A LIST OF 20 MUNICIPAL SERVICES PROVIDED BY THE CITY AND ASK YOU, AS WE ASK RESIDENTS ACROSS THE STATE, WHAT SERVICES DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE REDUCED OR ULTIMATELY ELIMINATED? AND THE PURPOSE OF THAT WILL BE TO SHOW YOU SORT OF WHAT? WELL, I DON'T WANT TO JUMP TO ANY CONCLUSIONS, BUT MY GUESS IS YOU WILL NOT ALL HAVE A UNANIMOUS OPINION WHICH WILL BE SORT OF THE THE CRUX OF POLICY MAKING GOING FORWARD. SO LET'S RUN INTO THIS IN THE BEGINNING HERE.
SO PROPERTY TAX REFORM, THERE'S A BALLOT ON THE ON THE NOVEMBER BALLOT.
IT DOES SEVERAL THINGS. FIRST IS IT THE SECOND HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION.
AND THERE ARE TWO HOMESTEAD EXEMPTIONS IN THIS STATE IS ENLARGED FOR THOSE WHO WERE PERMANENT RESIDENTS AS OF DECEMBER 31ST, 26, THAT WILL MOVE TO $150,000 IN 2027 AND $250,000 FOR 2028. AND AND THEREAFTER, IT'S ADJUSTED BY THE CPI.
THE CURRENT LAW APPLIES ONLY TO THE SECOND EXEMPTION ONLY ABOVE 50,000.
AND THAT'S CAPPED AT $76,411 IN 26. THERE'S A DIFFERENT TREATMENT, AS ONE OF THE SPEAKERS POINTED OUT FOR NEW RESIDENTS THOSE WHO WERE NOT PERMANENT RESIDENTS ON THE DATE OF 26 WILL RECEIVE 50,000 FOR FOUR YEARS. THEN THE LARGER EXEMPTION IN YEAR FIVE, THE FIRST $25,000 EXEMPTION IS ONLY ON SCHOOL LEVIES.
THE NON HOMESTEADED ASSESSMENT CAP IS REDUCED FROM 10% TO 5%.
THAT MEANS THE VALUE TAXABLE VALUE CAN GROW ONLY TO 5%.
AND THEN IT LIMITS AD VALOREM SPENDING. AND THAT IS STILL UP IN THE AIR.
WHAT THAT MEANS. IT BASICALLY CHARGES THE FUTURE LEGISLATORS TO FIGURE THAT OUT.
SO WHAT WILL THIS MEAN TO PALM BAY FIRST ABOUT 22.1 MILLION WOULD BE THE FIRST YEAR'S REVENUE THAT WOULD BE COMING OFF THE TAX ROLL.
SECOND YEAR WHEN IT'S FULLY IN EFFECT, THAT WOULD GROW TO 44.5 MILLION STATEWIDE.
AND THIS IS INTERESTING TO, TO SEE STATEWIDE, THERE WOULD BE ABOUT $11.8 BILLION REDUCTION IN REVENUES RECEIVED BY LOCAL GOVERNMENT THAT CITIES AND COUNTIES AND SPECIAL DISTRICTS COMBINED.
AND THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE WAY YOUR TAX BASE IS CONSTRUCTED.
HERE. YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE'S ABOUT A $342 IMPACT OF PER PROPERTY VERSUS THE STATE, WHICH IS DOWN ABOUT 264. SO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN IN TERMS OF FISCAL YEAR YEAR IMPACT.
AS I POINTED OUT, IT IT WILL GROW OVER A PERIOD OF TIME.
HOWEVER, FUTURE BUDGETS. THE FOLLOWING BUDGET WOULD BE IF IT IF IT'S PASSED AND YOU CAN SEE ON THIS CHART HOW HOW IT GROWS TO $44 MILLION IN THE, IN THE FIFTH YEAR. ESTIMATED CITY REDUCTIONS.
AGAIN, THOSE NUMBERS ARE OVER A PERIOD OF TIME.
ONE THING TO POINT OUT IS THAT THIS DOES NOT QUANTIFY GROWTH OF THAT'S AFFECTED BY THE REQUIREMENT OF THE FUTURE AFTER YEAR FIVE OF ULTIMATELY DOING AWAY WITH PROPERTY TAXES FOR ALL PROPERTIES.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THE LEGISLATURE WOULD HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO.
[00:10:05]
SO WHAT I WANT TO TOUCH ON SECOND IS ABOUT SENTIMENT.AND AND LET ME JUST PREFACE THIS PART BY TELLING YOU I WORK WITH ZEN CITY.
I'M AN EMPLOYEE OF ZEN CITY. I'M THEIR SENIOR ADVISOR FOR STRATEGIC FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT STRATEGY ON THERE, BUT THIS WAS AN INDEPENDENT STUDY THAT ZEN CITY DID STATEWIDE.
AND I THOUGHT IT WAS RELEVANT FOR THIS DISCUSSION TODAY.
SO I WANTED TO PRESENT IT TO YOU. THEY SURVEYED 600 RESIDENTS BETWEEN JUNE 10TH AND JUNE 14TH ON THERE. THAT IS YOU KNOW, TYPICAL SAMPLE SIZE.
IF WE WERE DOING THIS NATIONWIDE, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ABOUT 1900 SAMPLES, BUT FOR THE SIZE OF FLORIDA, 602 GIVES US A STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT SURVEY.
WHAT WE FOUND WAS THAT BASICALLY 40% OF THE THE RESIDENTS SURVEYED KNEW ABOUT THE AMENDMENT.
THAT CHANGED SLIGHTLY. IF YOU LOOK AT HOMEOWNERS VERSUS RENTERS 46% OF HOMEOWNERS KNEW ABOUT IT, 31% OF RENTERS DID NOT. 30, 32% OF THE RESPONDENTS REPORTED THAT THEY KNEW HOW GOVERNMENT SERVICES WERE PAID FOR. THAT MEANT THAT 68% OF THE PEOPLE DON'T.
AND THAT'S AN IMPORTANT THING TO CONSIDER. AND THEN 35% OF THE RENTERS SAID THAT THEY WEREN'T FAMILIAR AT ALL WITH THE AMENDMENT OR HOW THINGS WERE PAID FOR BY LOCAL GOVERNMENT.
CONCERNS ABOUT AFFORDABILITY. WHEN YOU LOOK AT AGE GROUP, THE BIGGEST GROUP THAT WAS CONCERNED ABOUT SERVICES BEING CUT WERE PEOPLE BETWEEN THE AGES OF 18 AND 34 AT 72% THAT DIMINISHED AS YOU GOT OLDER TO 54% FOR THE NEXT TWO CATEGORIES. AND WHAT WAS ALSO INTERESTING THAT WE FOUND IS THAT WHILE PROPERTY TAXES WERE CONCERNED ON AFFORDABILITY, PROPERTY INSURANCE WAS JUST AS MUCH OR SLIGHTLY MORE OF AN ISSUE ON AFFORDABILITY.
BUT BETWEEN THE TWO PEOPLE GENERALLY FEEL THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE IN IN THEIR HOMES, ON THEIR.
SO THEN WE ASKED THE QUESTION, WELL, WHAT SHOULD BE CUT UP ON THERE? AND WHAT WE FOUND WERE THAT THE THE TOPICS THAT PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT CUT WERE SENIOR SERVICES, STORMWATER, SOLID WASTE, PUBLIC SAFETY, AND TRAFFIC SIGNALS WHERE THEY THOUGHT THERE WAS ROOM TO, TO MAKE CUTS WHERE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, CODE ENFORCEMENT PLANNING AND ZONING, URBAN FORESTRY.
NOW HERE, BREVARD COUNTY DOES MOSQUITO CONTROL.
BUT THAT'S STILL A SERVICE THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WERE THINKING ABOUT COULD, COULD GO.
SO THE EXERCISE THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS GOING TO BE MORE HONED ABOUT PALM BAY SERVICES.
SO WHAT'S, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WHAT'S NOT ON THE LIST WILL BE MOSQUITO CONTROL, LIBRARY SERVICES, PUBLIC HEALTH, ANIMAL SERVICES AND AMBULANCE TRANSPORT, BECAUSE THOSE ARE ALL BREVARD COUNTY SERVICES AND THINGS THAT ARE NOT SUPPORTED BY PROPERTY TAX, WATER AND SEWER, SOLID WASTE, STORMWATER BUILDING, INSPECTION AND PERMITTING, SINCE THOSE ALL HAVE THEIR OWN REVENUE SOURCES.
SO WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO TONIGHT IS WE'RE GOING TO ASK YOU TO PUT YOURSELF IN THE PLACE OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE CITY ADMINISTRATION AND START THINKING ABOUT WHAT WHAT SHOULD BE CUT.
SO I'M GOING TO PASS OUT SOME SHEETS FOR YOU TO, TO MAKE SOME NOTES ON.
[00:15:04]
YEAH. FIVE ITEMS IN COLUMN ONE. AND THEN WHAT I'M GOING TO DO IS ASK YOU AFTER YOUR FIVE THERE OUT OF THOSE FIVE MARK TWO THAT YOU WOULD COMPLETELY ELIMINATE. AND THEN JUST HOLD THOSE AND THEN WE'LL GO AT SOME RANDOM ORDER TO ASK YOU WHAT THOSE ARE AND I'LL TALLY THEM.BUT ANY QUESTIONS ON THE, CONTENT OF PROPERTY TAX REFORM.
IF ANYBODY WANTS TO PLAY ALONG, I WANT TO SEE WHICH ONES THEY PICK.
I WOULD START WITH MY. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME.
MAY I ASK A QUESTION? YES, SIR. WHAT IS URBAN FORESTRY? THE WAY I WOULD DEFINE URBAN FORESTRY IS ALL YOUR STREET TREES AND THE TREE CANOPIES THAT YOU SEE IN PARKS, AND ANY NATURAL PRESERVES LIKE TURKEY CREEK THAT YOU HAVE.
OKAY. BASICALLY, IT'S EVERY CITY OWNED TREE. OKAY.
IF YOU CHOOSE ONE IN THE REDUCED, YOU CANNOT CHOOSE IT IN THE ELIMINATE OR CAN.
YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO. NO. HOW DID THE FIVE THAT YOU CHOOSE TO REDUCE.
THEN TAKE TWO OF THOSE AND ELIMINATE THEM COMPLETELY.
THANK YOU. I WILL I'LL TAKE THAT.
IT'S A SAFETY ISSUE. CAN'T DO THAT.
INSTEAD. I'LL RELY ON HER TO TELL ME WHEN EVERYBODY'S DONE.
I'M DONE. IF I'LL START AT THE AT ONE END, AND WE'LL JUST GO ACROSS. SO. VICE CHAIR.
FELIX. WHICH FIVE DO YOU HAVE? THANK YOU, MR. FELDMAN. I STARTED OUT WITH REDUCING URBAN FORESTRY MEETINGS IN PUBLIC LANDSCAPE. THE SECOND NUMBER TEN ATHLETIC FIELD VIEW OF SPORTS AND AQUATICS 12 COMMUNITY AND SPECIAL EVENTS. 14 CODE ENFORCEMENT AND COMMUNICATION AND PUBLIC INFORMATION. AND AS FAR AS ELIMINATING COMPLETELY, IT'S NUMBER SEVEN URBAN FORESTRY
[00:20:08]
AND NUMBER 12. CHAIR. YEAH, IT'S ALWAYS A UNIQUE EXERCISE. AND THE WAY I'VE ALWAYS LOOKED AT IT IS WHAT YOU CAN, WHAT YOU CAN DO AS A PAY AS YOU GO TYPE SITUATION WHERE SO ONE OF THE FIRST ONES THAT I PICKED FOR REDUCTION IS PARKS, GROUND MAINTENANCE AND MOWING AND ATHLETIC FIELD YOUTH AND AQUATICS, BECAUSE THAT ENDS UP BEING A, SOMETHING THAT HISTORICALLY PEOPLE HAVE LOOKED AT TO TO, TO, TO PAY AS YOU GO OR PAY AS YOU USE AS A, AS A REPLACEMENT.THE NEXT PIECE I HAD IS COMMUNITY SPECIAL EVENTS, COMMUNICATION AND PUBLIC INFORMATION AND HUMAN RESOURCE RISK MANAGEMENT, EMPLOYEE TRAINING. THE TWO I HAD FOR ELIMINATION IS PARKS, GROUNDS AND ATHLETIC FIELDS.
MR. GO. OKAY. DID NUMBER SEVEN URBAN FORESTRY MEDIANS AND PUBLIC LANDSCAPING.
I'VE LOOKED AT A LOT OF THINGS. A LOT OF THINGS DON'T WORK.
SOME THINGS DO. RECREATION AND COMMUNITY CENTERS.
ATHLETIC FIELDS AND YOUTH SPORTS AND AQUATICS.
PEOPLE WHO WANT TO USE IT ARE GOING TO HAVE TO STEP UP AND TAKE CARE OF IT.
SENIOR PROGRAMS AND SERVICES. THINGS GET TIGHT.
YOU DON'T SET APART ONE GROUP FROM EVERYBODY ELSE.
THAT'S WHY I CHOSE TO KEEP NUMBER 12 AND NUMBER 20.
MUCH OF THE CUSTOMER SERVICE COULD BE TURNED OVER TO HANDLE AUTONOMOUSLY.
PROBABLY 90% OF THE PHONE CALLS AND OTHER CUSTOMER SERVICE ISSUES THAT COME INTO THE CITY.
THE TWO I ELIMINATED WAS URBAN FORESTRY AND THE SENIOR PROGRAMS AND SERVICES.
MR. RANDALL OKAY TO REDUCE. I HAD NUMBER SEVEN URBAN FORESTRY MEETINGS, PUBLIC LANDSCAPING, NUMBER NINE RECREATION PROGRAMS, COMMUNITY CENTERS, NUMBER 12, COMMUNITY AND SPECIAL EVENTS.
I ACTUALLY THINK WE NEED TO INCREASE THE PRICE FOR THAT.
BUT NUMBER 19, HUMAN RESOURCE RISK MANAGEMENT AND EMPLOYEE TRAINING, NUMBER 20, FINANCE, BUDGET, PROCUREMENT AND CUSTOMER SERVICE, NOT SO MUCH PROCUREMENT, BUT THE OTHERS TO ELIMINATE.
I HAVE ATHLETIC FIELDS USE SPORTS AND AQUATICS AND SENIOR PROGRAM SERVICES.
AND I BASED IT ON WANTS VERSUS NEEDS. OKAY. MR. STEIN. YES, I, I SAID REDUCE ON NUMBER SEVEN URBAN FORESTRY MEETINGS AND WHAT HAVE YOU.
AND THEN EIGHT PARKS AND GROUNDS MAINTENANCE, MOWING.
THE TWO I SAID TO ELIMINATE WERE THE ATHLETIC FIELDS, SPORTS AND AQUATICS AND COMMUNITY SERVICE, COMMUNITY AND SPECIAL EVENTS. GREAT. THANK YOU.
SO I JUST LOOKING AT THIS, I THINK THERE'S A GENERAL THEME THAT'S COMING FROM FROM THE TASK FORCE ON THERE THAT THAT ATHLETIC FIELDS, YOUTH SPORTS, AQUATICS, RECREATION PROGRAMS, COMMUNITY CENTERS LANDSCAPING, URBAN FORESTRY AND COMMUNITY AND SPECIAL EVENTS ARE SORT OF THE AREAS THAT TO LOOK AT.
THE QUESTION ULTIMATELY WILL BE IF THIS PASSES, CAN YOU ACHIEVE $22 MILLION IN SAVINGS THE FIRST YEAR AND $44 MILLION A YEAR IN THIS SUBSEQUENT YEARS OF JUST THOSE AREAS? AND I THINK THE ANSWER IS GOING TO BE NO. ON THERE.
SO THAT THAT'S REALLY GOING TO BE WHERE THE THE, YOU KNOW, POLICY DECISIONS WILL HAVE TO COME IN, YOU KNOW THE VICE CHAIR SERVED ON THE COUNCIL.
YOU KNOW, WHAT THOSE TYPES OF DISCUSSIONS ARE DURING THE BUDGET PROCESS.
[00:25:07]
OF DISCUSS ANYTHING YOU MIGHT WANT TO BE DOING IN THE FUTURE WITH REGARD TO PROPERTY TAX REFORM.YEAH. JUST WANTED TO SAY REAL QUICK THAT I'M CHAIRMAN OF PARKS AND RECREATION BOARD.
SO I'VE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS REAL HARD. AND YOU HAVE TO BE A REALIST THAT WHEN IT COMES TO PARKS, ITS PARKS AND FACILITIES, THE FIRST THING YOU HAVE TO SERVICE OUT OF WHAT'S AVAILABLE IN THE BUDGET IS THE UNION PENSIONS AND THE DEBT SERVICE, AND THEN YOU CAN START TAKING CARE OF EVERYTHING ELSE.
SO FACILITIES ARE PROBABLY GOING TO BE BEFORE PARKS BECAUSE IT'S MORE OF A CAPITAL INVESTMENT.
SO THEY HAVE TO BE REALISTIC AND LOOK AT WHAT PARKS CAN WE SAVE IF THIS IS TO PASS.
AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHERE WE'RE AT. I'M SORRY.
YEAH. NO IT'S I MEAN YOU MAKE A VERY VALID POINT.
RIGHT. AND THOSE WOULD BE THE ISSUES THAT THE THE ADMINISTRATION HAS TO US HAS TO DEAL WITH.
SO, YOU KNOW, DEBT SERVICES IS AN OBLIGATION.
YOU HAVE PENSIONS AND OTHER POST-EMPLOYMENT BENEFITS THAT, THAT ARE CONTRACTUALLY REQUIRED TO, TO PAY FOR. AND THEN YOU HAVE EVERYTHING ELSE.
YOU HAVE ALL THE, YOU KNOW, WHAT I'LL CALL ESSENTIAL SERVICES.
YOU KNOW, POLICE FIRE TO WHAT DEGREE OF MAGNITUDE YOU WANT TO HAVE THOSE, YOU KNOW TAKE FIRE, FOR EXAMPLE YOU FUND DO YOU FUND FOR FOR ON AN ENGINE? DO YOU HAVE FOR FOR PEOPLE ON A ENGINE HERE? YES, YES.
SO, YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION WOULD BE, DO YOU NEED FOR PEOPLE ON AN ENGINE OR DO YOU GO BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS 20 YEARS AGO WITH THREE PEOPLE ON AN ENGINE. DO YOU CONTINUE TO PROVIDE ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT SERVICES ON YOUR FIRE APPARATUS, OR DO YOU DEFER THAT BACK TO THE COUNTY'S OBLIGATION? YOU KNOW, LAW ENFORCEMENT THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT THE SHERIFF IS STATUTORILY REQUIRED TO DO THAT YOU DO AS A FUNCTION OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, BUT YOU DO THAT TO PROVIDE A BETTER LEVEL OF SERVICE ON THERE, BUT THEY'RE DISCRETIONARY THINGS ON THERE.
BUT THEN YOU GET TO, YOU KNOW, THE FACILITIES, DO YOU, YOU KNOW, DO YOU NEED THE PARK? DO YOU NEED THE BUILDING? DO YOU, YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS? DO YOU BETTER OFF SELLING IT? PUT MORE HOMES ON IT.
YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, OR PUT A, YOU KNOW, PUT A COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT ON THAT LAND.
THOSE ARE ALL THINGS YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT.
AS YOU, YOU KNOW, IF THIS GOES FORWARD, THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE A SIMPLE SOLUTION.
AND THAT'S KIND OF BEEN WHAT I'VE, HOW I'VE FRAMED THE CONVERSATION IS, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE STATE'S NOT CUTTING YOUR, YOUR, YOUR, YOUR PROPERTY TAXES.
WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS JUST NOT HAVING ALL THE MUNICIPALITIES FIGHT FOR WHAT'S LEFT OF THE, OF THE STATE BUDGET OF HOW IT GETS REALLOCATED IS BASICALLY WHAT'S THE HIGH LEVEL OF IT, RIGHT? IT'S KIND OF A STATE REALLOCATE HOW THE STATE REALLOCATES MONEY TO THE MUNICIPALITIES.
SO IF THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE THAT MONEY BACK, YOU'RE EITHER AT THE END OF THE YEAR OR AT SOME POINT, YOU'RE EITHER MAKING IT UP LOCALLY OR YOU'RE JUST CUTTING 20 TO $40 MILLION OUT OF THE BUDGET? WELL, YES AND NO. SO THERE ARE A COUPLE OF STATE SHARED REVENUES.
MUNICIPAL REVENUE SHARING IS ONE LOCAL SALES TAX, NOT LOCAL OPTION, BUT REGULAR SALES TAX.
IS THE OTHER AND THEN THERE ARE SOME SMALLER ONES ALONG THE WAY.
THE STATE DOESN'T GET ANY PROPERTY TAX. THEY, THEY RELY UPON ZERO PROPERTY TAX.
THEY, THEIR BUDGET IS BASED UPON SALES TAX. OUT OF THE $0.06 THEY GIVE CITIES, CITIES AND COUNTIES BACK ROUGHLY A HALF, A HALF A PENNY OF THAT THROUGH A FORMULA BASED UPON THE COUNTY WHERE SALES OCCUR AND POPULATION WITHIN THE COUNTY.
THAT'S THE ONLY REALLOCATION OF STATE RESOURCES THAT IS THAT IS THERE.
[00:30:03]
SO THE. THE MODEL REALLY SAYS TO CITIES AND COUNTIES, STATES GETS THE SALES TAX.YOU GET PROPERTY TAX, YOU CAN LEVY PROPERTY TAX UP TO TEN MILLS.
AFTER THAT, YOU HIT THE CAP. SO LIVE WITHIN THE TEN MILLS.
BUT NOW WHAT WHAT HAPPENS IS HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION IS ONE OF THOSE EXEMPTIONS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THAT A FEW TIMES AGO THAT EAT INTO THE TAXABLE VALUE. SO NOW INSTEAD OF IT BEING 50,000, YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE IT 150,002 50.
WELL THERE ARE GOING TO BE PROPERTIES IN PALM BAY THAT WILL PAY ZERO IN PROPERTY TAX TO, TO THE CITY AND COUNTY AND ONLY PAY SOME TO THE SCHOOL BOARD IF IT HITS THAT. 250 ON THERE.
AND SO THOSE PROPERTIES, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE HITTING THE 250 AND PAYING ZERO IN PROPERTY TAXES.
THEY'RE STILL GOING TO BE USERS OF SERVICES THAT THE CITY PROVIDES.
SO THEN THE CITY HAS TO DECIDE, AND THERE WAS SOME ALLUSION TO IT DURING THE COMMENTS.
NOW THE CITY DOES CHARGE FOR USING ATHLETIC FIELDS ON THEIR, MAYBE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RAISE IT, BUT THE FEES HAVE TO BE REASONABLE AND JUST AND TIED TO THE COST OF ACTUALLY USING THE FIELD.
I THINK YEAH, THIS IS, THIS IS DEFINITELY GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE MULTIPLE CONVERSATIONS.
CERTAINLY CITY COUNCIL HAS THEIR WORK CUT OUT FOR THEM ON, ON THIS ON THIS ONE WHICH TRULY, REALLY NOT GOING TO HAVE A MUCH, MUCH CONTROL IN TERMS OF HOW THE PEOPLE VOTE AND SO ON.
ASSUMING THIS PAST THERE'S CERTAINLY AREA YOU KNOW, TOM MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, THE DEBT SERVICES, THOSE, THOSE ARE OBLIGATIONS THAT DEFINITELY COME FIRST AND FOREMOST, AREAS SUCH AS PUBLIC SAFETY.
I THINK THE BOARD DID A GOOD, YOU KNOW, THEY SUMS UP SOME OF THE AREA THAT SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
I WAS THINKING EVEN CONSIDERING AND THAT'S FURTHER CONVERSATION FOR COUNCIL, I THINK PRIORITIES PRIORITIZE SOME OF OUR DEPARTMENTS COULD, SHOULD BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION.
AS LONG AS THEY, IT MAY BENEFIT MAKE UP FOR SOME OF THAT SHORTFALL.
IF WE CAN INCREASE. FOR EXAMPLE, UTILITY DEPARTMENT IS AN ENTERPRISE FUND.
IF WE CAN PRIVATIZE, THAT WOULD GENERATE MORE REVENUE.
THAT COULD BE A WAY TO. I THINK THAT SHOULD BE THAT SHOULD BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION.
THE BROTHER, THE GENERAL CONVERSATION. BUT CERTAINLY THESE AREAS WHERE THE DEBT SERVICE, PUBLIC SAFETY, THOSE ARE DEFINITELY SHOULD BE, YOU KNOW SHOULD BE FIRST AND, AND EVERYTHING ELSE AND, AND REALLY LOOKED AT OR MAYBE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOKED AT STAFFING, WHAT REALLY, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE ESPECIALLY OUR WHITE COLLAR POSITIONS THOSE SIX FIGURE JOBS POSITIONS AND SURELY TAKE A DIP DIP DIVE INTO CONSIDERING YOU KNOW SALARIES IS A BIG CHUNK OF OUR BUDGET.
SURELY TAKE A, TAKE A GOOD LOOK INTO ARE WE GETTING OUR RETURN ON INVESTMENT, HAVING MULTIPLE LAYERS OF MANAGEMENT? IS IT NEEDED? I THINK THESE ARE SOME OF THE AREAS, CORE AREAS WE SHOULD START WITH.
JUST A COMMENT. I WAS JUST HAPPY THAT NOBODY WENT INTO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OR CODE COMPLIANCE, BECAUSE WHEN THOSE THINGS GO AWAY, THE CITY STARTS TO DETERIORATE.
YOUR, YOU KNOW, YOUR PROPERTY VALUE GOES DOWN, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME YOUR INSURANCE RATES GO UP BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THE POLICE AND FIRE COVERAGE YOU HAD PREVIOUSLY. SO IT'S KIND OF A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD.
I LOOKED AT IT IN THAT LIGHT WITH THE INSURANCE AND THE TAXES KIND OF ON A BALANCE AND YOU CAN GET RID OF YOUR PROPERTY TAXES, BUT EVENTUALLY YOUR INSURANCE IS GOING TO GO UP AND YOUR PROPERTY IS NOT GOING TO BE WORTH ANYTHING.
[00:35:04]
AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THE SIMPLE TRUTH OF IT.YEAH. AND IT KIND OF GOES ALONG WITH THE SLIDE THAT YOU HAD WITH THE AMOUNT, THE AMOUNT OR PERCENTAGE OF I THINK WAS IT THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY TAX LEVELS, THE 363, 63 VERSUS TWO TO SOMETHING? AND I MEAN, THAT'S KIND OF INDICATIVE OF HOW WE'RE NOT A HEAVY CORPORATE PALM BAY IS NOT A HEAVY CORPORATE COMMERCIAL CENTER. SO A LOT OF THEIR PROPERTY TAXES ARE COMING OFF OF THE ROOFTOPS.
AND SO WHEN WITH EVERY HOUSE THAT IS EITHER REDUCED FROM A FROM A, FROM AN EXEMPTION STANDPOINT, THAT'S WHERE, YOU KNOW, FOLKS, IF YOU'VE IF YOU JUST MOVE HERE FOR THE FIRST TIME, WHICH IS NOT A BAD THING IF YOU MOVE HERE, PEOPLE WHO'VE LIVED HERE HAVE PUT PUT THE MONEY, BLOOD, SWEAT, TEAR AND EQUITY INTO THE COMMUNITY.
BUT AT SOME POINT, YOU KNOW, OVER TIME, IF YOU'RE NOT CONTINUALLY GROWING, IF YOUR PROPERTY VALUES AREN'T MAINTAINING OR INCREASING, ESPECIALLY IF YOUR PROPERTY VALUES NOT INCREASING, THAT PUTS THE BURDEN OF AS EVERYTHING ELSE GOES UP IN PRICE, IF YOUR HOME IS NOT GOING UP IN PRICE OR THE VALUE OF YOUR HOME, AND IN TURN THE PROPERTY TAX THAT WOULD BE PULLED FROM IT, IT MAKES IT THAT MUCH MORE HARD, THAT MUCH MORE CHALLENGING TO MEET BUDGETS WHEN YOU'RE CONSTANTLY HAVING TO RAISE TAXES.
BECAUSE I'VE BEEN IN AREAS WHERE WE WERE CONSTANTLY LOWERING THE PROPERTY TAX BECAUSE THE ASSESSED VALUE CONTINUED TO GROW, WHICH IS NOT THE SITUATION THAT MOST AREAS HAVE, BUT IT'S THE SAME SITUATION.
YOU KNOW, YOU ALWAYS KIND OF WANT TO SEE AN EVOLVING, GROWING AND AND SELF SELF-SUSTAINING AREA TO, TO KIND OF HELP SUSTAIN YOURSELF. AND THAT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING.
THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I DIDN'T LOOK AT CODE ENFORCEMENT AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WHICH I FEEL MOST EVERY, EVERY ONE OF THESE 20 ITEMS WOULD HAVE TO GET TOUCHED ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, SOME JUST DEEPER THAN OTHERS.
IF WE WERE TO MEET A 40, YOU KNOW, A $40 MILLION CUT BECAUSE EVERY DEPARTMENT, MOST EVERY DEPARTMENT IS HEAVY. SALARY AND BENEFITS.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT JUST IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE A HOLISTIC APPROACH TO, TO, TO ADDRESS.
SO I DEFINITELY APPRECIATE THIS CONVERSATION THOUGH.
GO AHEAD PLEASE. OKAY, SO I'M GOING TO BE THE BAD GUY AGAIN.
INSTEAD OF LOOKING AT WHAT SERVICES WE CAN CUT, LET'S LOOK AT WHAT WE CAN REDUCE IN THE BUDGET.
FOR INSTANCE, HAVE WE REVIEWED ONE THING? I DIDN'T SEE ANY MENTION, ANY MENTION OF ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS IN THE SURVEY. THERE WAS NOTHING.
RETIREMENT CONTRIBUTIONS. HEALTH INSURANCE COSTS.
CONSULTING CONTRACTS. VEHICLE ALLOWANCES, TRAVEL AND TRAINING.
AND THE REASON I MENTION THIS IS I, I DID A LITTLE RESEARCH AND OUR EMPLOYEE HEALTH INSURANCE, LET'S JUST TAKE HEALTH INSURANCE. ACCORDING TO KAISER FAMILY FOUNDATION, WHICH IS THE HEAD GURU OF HEALTH INSURANCE ACROSS THE COUNTRY. I TOOK THEIR FIGURES THERE. AND THIS IS MAINLY BIG CORPORATIONS, HOSPITALS, MEDICAL, EVERYTHING INVOLVED. SO THE AVERAGE PRIVATE SECTOR EMPLOYEE ONLY IS 84% PAID BY THE EMPLOYER. PALM BAY IS 92 TO 100% PAID BY PALM BAY.
SO THERE'S 8 TO 16% DIFFERENCE JUST IN THAT. THEN EMPLOYEE, SPOUSE AND EMPLOYEE CHILDREN.
THEY RANK THOSE IN THE SAME. EVEN THOUGH SOME CORPORATIONS.
THERE'S A LITTLE DIFFERENCE, BUT THEY RANK THEM THE SAME.
SO THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS 74%. PALM BAY IS 82 TO 84%.
[00:40:07]
8 TO 10 POINTS DIFFERENCE. AN EMPLOYEE AND FAMILY PRIVATE SECTOR IS 74% PALM BAY 85 TO 86%. SO WE HAVE 11 TO 12% DIFFERENCE, 1111 TO 12 POINT DIFFERENCE IN JUST HEALTH INSURANCE. AND WHEN I LOOKED AT THE PALM BAY BENEFITS BOOKLET. ANOTHER AREA WHERE YOU COULD LOOK AT WOULD BE LIFE INSURANCE.IT'S NOT A REAL BIG FACTOR IN EMPLOYEE BENEFITS, BUT IT ADDS UP 100% OF A PERSON'S SALARY. THEY, THEY GIVE YOU A LIFE INSURANCE POLICY OF 100% OF YOUR SALARY.
MANY CORPORATIONS GIVE YOU A LIMIT. 50,000, 75,000.
THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT I LOOK AT. ANY ANY CORPORATION.
EVEN ELON MUSK, WHEN HE BOUGHT TWITTER, WHAT DID HE DO? FIRST OF ALL, HE ELIMINATED A BUNCH OF EMPLOYEES AND FOUND OUT HE COULD STILL OPERATE.
SO ANYTIME THAT I LOOK AT ANYTHING LIKE THAT, I HAVE TO.
I HAVE TO SEE WHAT KIND OF BENEFITS OUR EMPLOYEES ARE GETTING.
AND I'M NOT SAYING WE HAVE BAD EMPLOYEES. I THINK THEY'RE TOP NOTCH.
BUT CAN WE AFFORD THEM FIVE YEARS FROM NOW? CAN WE AFFORD RAISE INCREASES CONSTANTLY, 5%, 5%. WE HAVE IT IN OUR CHARTER THAT SEVERAL OF OUR EMPLOYEES CAN GET A RAISE. 2.7%, I THINK IT WAS THE THE INDEX. WHAT IS IT? THE FINANCIAL GPI. ANYWAY, IT WAS AT 2.71 AND IT SAYS IN OUR CHARTER, WHICHEVER IS LOWER. IT DOESN'T SAY WHICH ONE'S HIGHER.
SO I KNOW THIS IS A VERY UNPOPULAR SUBJECT. BUT I FEEL THAT WE HAVE VERY WELL PAID EMPLOYEES. EVERY ONE OF THEM ARE WELL PAID.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, THEY'RE EVEN BETTER PAID THAN BREVARD COUNTY.
BY THE AVERAGE WAS $10,000 AVERAGE SALARY IN PALM BAY VERSUS BREVARD COUNTY, FLORIDA.
SO WE ARE PAYING OUR EMPLOYEES VERY WELL AND THEY HAVE EXCELLENT BENEFITS.
AND THE WAY I LOOK AT IT, LET'S KEEP LET'S HELP THEM KEEP THEIR JOBS.
BUT ARE THEY WILLING TO SACRIFICE 10% OF THEIR SALARY, 5% OF THEIR SALARY? ARE THEY WILLING TO TO PAY ANOTHER 10% TOWARD THEIR HEALTH BENEFITS VERSUS 100%? THOSE ARE THE THINGS I LOOK AT BEFORE YOU CUT SERVICES.
LACK OF COOPERATION. JUDY. THANK YOU. YOU TOUCHED ON A VERY GOOD, YOU KNOW, VERY IMPORTANT FACTOR BECAUSE REALLY THAT THAT'S ONE AREA ADMINISTRATION, ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS, REALLY. IT'S A BIG CHUNK OF OUR BUDGET. I DON'T MIND PAYING PEOPLE.
I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT. IT TO BE COMPETITIVE IN THE MARKET WE'RE IN.
EVEN TO COMPETE FROM CITY TO CITY OR, OR EVEN BECAUSE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IS WE'RE GOING TO PROBABLY LOSE A LOT OF ONCE WE START PEOPLE TO MAKE THOSE ASKING PEOPLE TO MAKE SACRIFICES LIKE THAT. SO TO TAKE A PAY REDUCTION OR CONTRIBUTE MORE, POTENTIALLY, YOU'LL SEE A MASS EXODUS IN TERMS OF GOING TO PRIVATE SECTOR.
MY MY. I GUESS MY COUNSEL WOULD BE LET'S MAKE SURE WE ARE GETTING RETURN ON OUR INVESTMENT, MAKING SURE THAT THOSE WE HAVE, ARE WE GETTING OUR RETURN FOR WHAT WE PAY IN TERMS OF EFFICIENCY.
[00:45:09]
THE EXTENT WE'RE PAYING THEM? I THINK THAT THAT MAY BE AN AREA THAT SHOULD BE MORE OF A FOCUS.I WAS INSIDE AND I'VE SEEN IT AND I UNDERSTAND THERE'S ALWAYS OPPORTUNITIES.
LET'S TRY TO RUN IT MORE LIKE THE PRIVATE SECTOR DOES WHERE PEOPLE, THERE'S STRICT GUIDELINES AND UNDERSTANDING IF YOU'RE NOT PERFORMANCE, IF IF YOU'RE NOT PERFORMING AND YOU'RE OUT KIND OF JUST LIKE THE, YOU KNOW, THE EXECUTIVE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, THEY KNOW IF THEY'RE NOT, THE NUMBERS ARE NOT RIGHT.
THEY HAVE TO NOT, NOT, NOT ONLY ANSWER TO, TO, THEY HAVE TO ANSWER TO THE STOCKHOLDERS SHAREHOLDERS, WHICH IS WE ARE TAX TAXPAYERS. LET'S JUST MAKE SURE WE YOU'RE ALL PERFORMING THE IDEA OF RUNNING, YOU KNOW, DRIVING BY AND SEEING AND PICKING ON THE PUBLIC WORKS GUYS.
RIGHT? ONE HOLDING THE SHOVEL, YOU KNOW, ONE, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT THAT PICTURE.
AND QUITE HONESTLY, AS A COUNCIL MEMBER, I'VE SEEN IT AND I WAS VERY VOCAL ABOUT IT.
AND I LOVE ALL PEOPLE. I THINK WE HAVE AWESOME PEOPLE HERE IN PALM BAY, BUT I THINK THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD PAY CLOSER ATTENTION TO AND LET'S CONTINUE PAYING THEM. YEAH, IT MIGHT BE SOME OPPORTUNITY AS WELL, BUT I THINK THE FOCUS SHOULD PROBABLY BE MOVING FORWARD, MAKING SURE EFFICIENCY AT ALL LEVELS OF OUR GOVERNMENT.
LEE, I ASKED THE QUESTION ON WHAT CAN BE SUBCONTRACTED OUT AND DO SO IN SUCH A MANNER, YOU KNOW, MAKE THINGS A LITTLE BIT MORE COST EFFECTIVE THAT WAY.
SO. I WILL JUST TELL YOU FROM EXPERIENCE, 35 YEARS IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT THAT PRIVATIZATION AND CONTRACTING OUT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE IT CHEAPER.
ON THERE, SOMETIMES IT DOES, SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T.
BECAUSE IF YOU'RE SUBCONTRACTING OUT OR CONTRACTING OUT FOR SERVICES, YOU'RE ALSO NOW, IN ADDITION TO PAYING LABOR COSTS BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE TO PROVIDE THOSE SERVICES, TOO.
YOU'RE ALSO NOW ALSO PAYING A PROFIT UP ON THERE BECAUSE THE PRIVATE COMPANY HAS, YOU KNOW, HAS TO MAKE A PROFIT AND RETURN ON THEIR INVESTMENT AS WELL.
PRIVATIZATION TENDS TO WORK WHEN YOU ARE NOT WHEN YOU'RE WHEN YOU'RE STAFFING FOR, LET'S SAY, 80% OF THE JOB. LET ME, LET ME EXPLAIN THAT SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT.
LET'S SAY I HAVE TEN PEOPLE AND, AND THAT THOSE TEN PEOPLE ARE IN CHARGE OF TRIMMING TREES IN THERE.
AND WHEN THEY'RE TRIMMING, OKAY, THOSE TEN PEOPLE, THEY'RE TRIMMING AT ABOUT 120% OF ALL THE TREES. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY MAKE A CYCLE AND THEY STILL HAVE 20% MORE ACTIVITY, RIGHT? AND NOW I HAVE TO HAVE THOSE TEN PEOPLE BECAUSE IF PEOPLE ARE OUT ON VACATION AND SO FORTH, OKAY, OR THEY'RE OUT OR THEY GET HURT OR THINGS LIKE THAT, I STILL HAVE TO HIT THAT SCHEDULE AND PICK UP THOSE TREES.
IT MAY BE BETTER TO HAVE PRIVATIZATION ON THAT, BECAUSE IF I'M A PRIVATE COMPANY, WHEN I FINISH THIS, I GO WORK ON SOME OTHER TREES THAT ARE NOT CITY TREES.
SO I CAN ALWAYS KEEP MY CREWS ACTIVELY EMPLOYED.
AND SO THERE'S AN EFFICIENCY THAT CAN BE ACHIEVED BY CONTRACTING OUT.
RIGHT. YOU WERE IN YOU WERE IN THE, YOU KNOW, DEFENSE INDUSTRY ON THERE, RIGHT? YOU SAW THAT IN TERMS OF CAPACITY. AND SOMETIMES IF YOU COULDN'T BE AT A YOU KNOW, IF YOUR CAPACITY LEVELS WEREN'T IDEAL, YOU WOULD LOOK AT CONTRACTING OUT. IT'S THE SAME THING HERE IN IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT.
ON THERE. SO SOME SERVICES YOU CAN CONTRACT OUT, OTHERS YOU MAY NEVER WANT TO CONTRACT OUT BECAUSE YOU NEED SOME FORCED CAPACITY IN CASE SOMETHING GOES WRONG. RIGHT. I ALWAYS SAID THAT WHEN I WAS A MANAGER, I WAS NEVER GOING TO CONTRACT OUT THE CREWS THAT HAD TO MOVE TREES THAT FELL DOWN DURING A STORM, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO GO RELY UPON CONTRACTORS TO COME IN AND MOVE TREES OUT OF THE STREETS.
[00:50:08]
RIGHT. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I HAD ENOUGH FORCE LABOR FORCE, INTERNAL THAT I DIDN'T HAVE TO GO HUNTING FOR CONTRACTORS AFTER A STORM. AND, AND I DID FRANCES AND JEANNE HERE IN, IN PALM BAY.SO CONTRACTING OUT IS A SOLUTION, BUT IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE SOLUTION.
AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE SERVICE AND, AND DETERMINE WHEN IT'S BEST FOR YOU AND WHEN IT'S NOT.
YEAH, I AGREE. BUT AT THE SAME TIME I ENDED UP BEING SUBCONTRACTED OUT AND MY BENEFITS WERE CUT. THE SCOPE OF WORK EXPANDED AND THERE WERE, AND THEY'RE ACTUALLY, THEY ELIMINATE AT LEAST 1 OR 2 OUT OF OUR GROUP. SO WE HAD TO CARRY A HEAVIER BURDEN.
BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU LEARN HOW TO ADJUST FOR THAT.
AND THAT'S MY OPINION ON THAT. YEAH. I'M NOT LOOK, I'VE CONTRACTED OUT SERVICES IN MY CAREER AND SOMETIMES I GOT IT RIGHT, AND SOMETIMES I GOT IT WRONG.
I'M JUST SAYING, EACH SERVICE, IT CAN'T JUST BE EVERYTHING GETS CONTRACTED OUT, BUT IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE TRYING TO GET MORE EFFICIENCIES VERSUS SERVICE REDUCTION.
SO FROM REAL QUICK, SO FROM A PERCENTAGE STANDPOINT, WHAT IS THE, WHAT WAS THE LAST YEAR'S, WHAT IS LAST YEAR'S BUDGET? I WAS KIND OF DOING SOME QUICK RESEARCH ON WHAT THE, THE CURRENT YEAR'S ESTIMATED BUDGET THAT'S KIND OF BEING LOOKED AT NOW IT'S AROUND 300 MILLION. I DON'T KNOW OFFHAND. I LAST YEAR'S PROBABLY ABOUT 220 200.
IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH. 220 PLUS.
SO THE THE TOTAL ALL FUNDS AND THIS IS EVERYTHING IS 373 MILLION.
SO THREE IT WAS 317 MILLION. AND IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS YEAR 73 MILLION.
BUT THAT'S ALL YOUR FUNDS AND SEWER ENTERPRISE FUNDS AND SO FORTH.
SO YOU KIND OF GOT TO GET THE IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT THAT NUMBER, I WAS LOOKING AT 300 MILLION FROM JUST A GUESSTIMATE TOTAL $44 MILLION REDUCTION IS A 14% OF TOTAL BUDGET REDUCTION THEREABOUTS.
IF SO, IT'S JUST FROM A NUMBERS STANDPOINT OF WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT.
SO IT'S, IT'S A YOU JUST GOT TO LOOK AT GENERAL FUND.
YEAH. AND THEN SO YEAH, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S VERY GENERAL NUMBER BECAUSE AGAIN, THE THE NUMBER OF WHAT YOU WHAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY BUDGETING FOR AND PAYING WITH AND THROUGH PROPERTY TAXES VERSUS THROUGH FEES AND, AND AND OTHER PIECES.
SO IT'S, IT'S TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO IDENTIFY WHAT WE, WHAT THE CUT WOULD BE TO THE BUDGET AT, AT THE, THE FIRST YEAR'S LEVEL AND THEN AT THE GRADUATE LEVEL BECAUSE AGAIN, LIKE YOU SAID, YEAR ONE, IT'S, IT'S WHAT YOU IT'S HALF THE, HALF THE NUMBER ABOUT 22,000,022 TO 44.
SO YOU CAN GO UP TO TEN MILS. THAT'S ANOTHER 3.4 MILLS IN THERE.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER ROUGHLY $30 MILLION THAT YOU CAN RAISE, RIGHT, TO OFFSET SOME.
BUT THEN YOU'RE GOING TO EVERYBODY WHO'S PAYING TAXES IS GOING TO BE PAYING AT THE TOP RATE.
BUT EVEN RAISING 30 MILLION DOESN'T MAKE UP FOR 44 MILLION.
SO YOU'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE TO ACHIEVE SOME REDUCTIONS.
AGAIN, THOSE REDUCTIONS CAN COME BY, YOU KNOW, MAYBE, YOU KNOW, THROUGH COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, YOU CAN GET, YOU KNOW, THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING UNITS TO GIVE IN ON SOME ISSUES.
MAYBE IT'S HEALTH INSURANCE ON THERE, MAYBE IT'S CLOSING A FACILITY OR TWO, MAYBE IT'S RAISING FEES.
[00:55:06]
SO MY POINT IS, THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF MOVING LEVERS THAT ARE GOING TO GO ALL AT THE SAME TIME AS YOU'RE TRYING TO PUT THIS PUZZLE BACK TOGETHER AND THAT THAT NUMBER IS GOING TO BE BASICALLY IN WAVES BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A FIVE YEAR ROLL IN ROLL.SO I BUT THEN FOUR YEARS LATER MY EXEMPTION WOULD BE EVEN LOWER.
SO YOU'RE CONSTANTLY KIND OF FALLING OR TRYING TO CLIMB A MOUNTAIN FROM, IN TERMS OF A TAX REVENUE COLLECTION, WHEN EVERY YEAR ANOTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE ARE BEING ABLE TO, TO, TO TAKE A TAKE THAT, THAT, THAT EXEMPTION. SO IT'S IT'S DEFINITELY NOT A, YOU KNOW, A SCIENCE BASICALLY, IT'S, I COULD ADD A LITTLE PERSPECTIVE TO THAT.
EVERY YEAR WE COME TO DO THE BUDGET. MR.. FELIX COULD BACK ME UP ON THIS, BUT EVERY YEAR WHEN WE COME TO DO THE BUDGET, WE ASK ASKED FOR ONE SIMPLE THING $3 MILLION FOR ROAD MAINTENANCE.
EVERY YEAR IT'S $3 MILLION FOR ROAD MAINTENANCE.
AND FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS, WE COULD NEVER GET $3 MILLION FOR ROAD MAINTENANCE.
SO IF WE CAN'T GET $3 MILLION FOR ROAD MAINTENANCE, HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET TO 22 MILLION IN FIRST YEAR NEXT YEAR? THAT'S MY CONCERN. AND THIS ISN'T AN EXPERIMENT.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE VOTE INTO PLACE AND WOULD EVER BE REPEALED ONCE IT'S IN PLACE.
IT'S IN PLACE. YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER ANSWER OR ANOTHER WAY AROUND IT.
IT'S IN PLACE. IT'S WRITTEN IN LAW, AND YOU HAVE 60% IN ORDER TO REPEAL IT FROM THE CONSTITUTION.
SO IF YOU WANT TO PLAY AN EXPERIMENT, THIS ISN'T THE RIGHT ONE.
YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. I MEAN, AGAIN, I THINK IT'S DEFINITELY GOING TO HAVE TO BE IT'S NOT A ONE SIMPLE SOLUTION. THERE'S SO MANY AREA. WE GOT TO LOOK THE HOLISTICALLY LOOKED AT AREAS THAT.
BUT I THINK PRIORITIZATION SHOULD STILL BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION.
YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE CITY OF WESTERN SOUTH FLORIDA.
MR.. THEY ARE A COMPLETELY CONTRACTED CITY. RIGHT? IT'S WORKING. IT'S WORKING. NOT NOT NOT THAT I'M ARGUING FOR THAT PER SE, BUT I'M JUST SAYING I BELIEVE THIS SHOULD BE AS WE LOOKED AT POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS. THAT SHOULD BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION THAT MORE THAN EVER, THAT'S THE TIME WE SHOULD CONSIDER LOOKING INTO.
AND WHEN I SAY THEY'RE CONTRACTED, THEY DON'T NECESSARILY CONTRACT WITH THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
THEY ALSO CONTRACT WITH THE PUBLIC SECTOR. SO THEIR POLICE SERVICES ARE PROVIDED BY SHERIFF, BROWARD SHERIFF. THERE ARE FIRE SERVICES ARE BROWARD SHERIFF ON THERE.
THEY GET OTHER MUNICIPALITIES TO PROVIDE THEM SERVICES AS WELL.
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THE MAYOR A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.
I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE BEST DECISIONS THAT THE CITY DID.
IT'S WORKING OUT. THEY HAVE A TOTAL OF 11 EMPLOYEES.
BUT YEAH, IT ISN'T A APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON.
SO THEY THEY WERE A BUNCH OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DISTRICTS THAT FORMED A CITY.
AND SO ALL THE BASIC SERVICES NOT BASIC THINGS LIKE ROAD MAINTENANCE WERE ALREADY BEING PAID FOR TO A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT STREET LIGHTING, THINGS ALONG THAT LINE.
SO SO THEY WERE, THEY WERE CONTRACT CITY FROM FORMATION.
BUT THEY WERE ALSO A CITY OF A WHOLE BUNCH OF SEEDS.
NO, IT CAN BE DONE. ALL I'M SAYING IS I THINK THAT SHOULD BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION.
THIS IS THE TIME. I THINK EVERYTHING WILL BE ON THE TABLE.
IT'S GOT TO BE CREATIVE. YEAH. I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE AN EXERCISE ON BEING CREATIVE.
LET'S THINK OF THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TO INCREASE REVENUE.
AND LET'S ALSO THINK ABOUT SUSTAINABILITY. DO WE REALLY THINK THAT ALL OF THESE VERY WELL PAID BENEFITS AND RETIREMENT. THAT WAS ANOTHER THING.
[01:00:02]
PRIVATE SECTOR 401 K GENERALLY IS FOUR AND A HALF TO 5% EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTION. PALM BAY IS 9 OR 9.5% CONTRIBUTION.THESE TO ME, YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR, IT'S UNSUSTAINABLE.
WE CAN'T KEEP DOING THIS. WE HAVE TO CUT THE BUDGET SOMEWHERE.
AND THE FIRST PLACE YOU CUT IT IS EMPLOYEE BENEFITS.
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I WAS ASKED ALSO TO JUST EMPHASIZE AGAIN ITEM NUMBER FOUR ON THE SCREEN, WHICH IS THAT THE NON-HOMESTEAD ASSESSMENTS ARE CAP IS GOING TO BE REDUCED FROM 10% TO 5%.
SO THE GROWTH IN NON-HOMESTEAD PROPERTY VALUES, INCLUDING COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL, WILL BE AT HALF HALF OF ITS MAXIMUM RATE. THE UNION.
THE UNION AGREEMENTS. HOW MANY OF THE PART OF THE AGREEMENTS ARE MANDATED THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE.
AND AND IT COULD ACTUALLY BE ELIMINATED. LIKE, I MEAN, LIKE YOU SAID, THEY HAVE TO HAVE FOUR PEOPLE ON, ON A FIRE TRUCK. IS THAT A, A UNION AGREEMENT OR MANDATED FROM A UNION OR IS THAT HOW IS THAT NEGOTIATED? SO UNION CONTRACTS IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA ALLOW YOU TO DO WAGES, BENEFITS AND WORKING CONDITIONS. I DON'T KNOW THAT STAFFING FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IS IT IS IN THE IT IS. SO THAT IS IN THE CONTRACT. SO ANYTHING THAT IS IN THE CONTRACT WOULD HAVE TO BE BASICALLY UNLESS THERE'S A PROVISION SUNSETTING IT. BASICALLY IT'S A TERM AND CONDITION OF EMPLOYMENT THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE BARGAINED FOR.
NOW COLLECTIVE BARGAINING THERE'S NOT A RIGHT TO STRIKE.
BUT THERE IS AN IMPASSE PROCEDURE THAT BASICALLY SAYS IF THE TWO SIDES CANNOT GET TOGETHER AND COME UP WITH A SOLUTION, IT THEN GOES TO THE CITY COUNCIL, WHICH HAS TO HAVE A HEARING, AND THEY ACT AS JUDGES ON THERE.
AND THEN THEY CAN IMPOSE A ONE YEAR CONTRACT AND THEN SEND EVERYBODY BACK TO THE TABLE.
SO THERE ARE WAYS IT'S NOT A PLEASANT EXPERIENCE TO GO THROUGH IMPASSE.
BUT AGAIN, I, MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN THAT UNIONS TEND TO BE REASONABLE ON THEIR.
THEY, OF COURSE, WANT TO LOOK OUT FOR THEIR MEMBERSHIP.
SO YOU KNOW, THOSE WILL BE SOME INTERESTING DISCUSSIONS AROUND THE TABLE.
EXACTLY. AND BY THE WAY, COLLECTIVE BARGAINING SESSIONS ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
SO YOU'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO COME AND LISTEN TO THOSE DISCUSSIONS.
SELL TICKETS AND RAISE REVENUE. YEAH. SELL, SELL, SELL TICKETS TO IT AND RAISE REVENUE.
SO ALL RIGHT, MR. BIDEN WILL ENTERTAIN.
WE'VE GOT HIM WELL TRAINED WHERE HE COMES UP THERE TO SPEAK ALL THE TIME.
BILL BATTEN, 586 OCEAN SPRAY STREET, SOUTHWEST.
THIS WILL PROBABLY GET ME SHOT LEAVING TONIGHT, BUT THERE'S ONE OTHER ALTERNATIVE THAT'S OUT THERE, AND IT'S AN UGLY ALTERNATIVE. AND I NEVER WANT TO SEE THIS.
BUT IT HAS HAPPENED IN OTHER CITIES. AND THAT'S WHERE THE CITY GIVES UP ITS CHARTER, GIVES UP ITS IT GOES BACK TO THE COUNTY WHERE GOVERNED UNDER THE COUNTY INSTEAD OF THE CITY HAVING TO HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT HOW DO WE SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS? IT ALL GOES BACK TO THE COUNTY AND WE ARE NO LONGER THE CITY OF PALM BAY, WHERE WE BECOME THE COUNTY OF BREVARD.
BUT I'M. I'M PROBABLY. THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR.
BUT KEEP IT IN THE ON THE BACK BURNER BECAUSE SEVERAL CITIES HAVE HAD TO DO THAT.
[01:05:09]
I THINK CITY OF NASHVILLE KIND OF DOES THAT IN A LOOSE SENSE WHERE SOME OF THE OUTLYING MUNICIPALITIES KIND OF ROLLED INTO THE CITY OF NASHVILLE FOR GOVERNMENT SERVICES. BUT JUST TO COMMENT ON MR. MADDEN'S POINT THAT WOULD REQUIRE A REFERENDUM IN THE CITY.REFERRING BACK TO WHAT BILL WAS SAYING, I THINK A LOT OF IF THE AMENDMENT PASSES, I THINK A LOT OF THE VERY SMALL CITIES AND COMMUNITIES COULD VERY WELL GO BACK TO BEING PART OF THE COUNTY.
SO, YOU KNOW, FOR ALL THOSE CITIES THAT THINK, OH MY GOSH, HOW ARE WE GOING TO MANAGE, HEY, GO BACK TO BEING THE COUNTY AND LET THE COUNTY WORRY ABOUT IT.
THAT'S THE WAY I LOOK AT IT. ALONG WITH THE REFERENDUM, DON'T THEN HAVE TO GO BACK THROUGH THE STATE LEGISLATURE ALSO THE SAME WAY THE D ANNEXATION DID A FEW YEARS AGO.
I KNOW I THINK THE STATUTE IS PRETTY CLEAR ON HOW TO DISINCORPORATE.
I COULDN'T FIND ANY. ANY SAVINGS OR ANY ALTERNATIVES THERE? YEAH. I MEAN, THERE ARE MECHANISMS IN THE STATE STATUTES FOR CITIES TO DO COOPERATIVE SERVICE AGREEMENTS ON THEIR.
THOSE MECHANISMS EXIST AND YOU MAY SEE SOME OF THOSE ACHIEVE ON THERE.
SO. YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE FLEET SERVICES DIVISION HAS SOME ADDITIONAL CAPACITY.
THE TOWN OF MALABAR MAY WANT TO CONTRACT WITH WITH PALM BAY IN ORDER TO TAKE CARE OF.
SOME APPARATUSES ON THEIR, THE CITY OF PALM BAY MAKES SOME MONEY SO THAT THEY'RE NOW WORKING AT 100% CAPACITY TO OFFSET COSTS. MALABAR GETS SOME SAVINGS ON, ON THAT.
SO, I MEAN, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT COULD BE WORKED OUT AMONG CITIES.
YEAH. INTERLOCAL AGREEMENTS WILL BECOME A, A POTENTIAL SOLUTION TOOL OR SO ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALL RIGHT.
ANY OTHER POINTS OR OR GOOD DEAL. JUST ONE LAST QUESTION, MR. FELDMAN. THE 3% CAP. OF THE COUNTY. HOW HOW IS THAT WOULD IMPACT THIS DECISION? IT WILL STILL BE THERE. SO. FOR THE PROPERTIES THAT ARE STILL, YOU KNOW, BEING TAXED OR LET'S SAY THOSE NEW PROPERTIES THAT ARE. THE NEW RESIDENTS COMING IN THAT WILL STILL BE IN EFFECT FOR THEM.
OKAY. YES, MA'AM. MR.. TWO THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO MAYBE HAVE A SESSION. OF REALLY DEEP DIVING INTO PERSONNEL AND THE COST.
BUT THE SECOND PART WOULD BE ANOTHER SESSION.
LIKE I SAID, LET'S HAVE AN EXERCISE ON HOW TO GENERATE MORE REVENUE.
I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF CREATIVE MINDS. LET'S LET'S CREATE MORE REVENUE.
WELL, THE DRUMBEAT I'VE HAD FROM CREATING REVENUE IS THROUGH CORPORATE EXPANSION, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE YOUR BIGGER BANG FOR YOUR, YOUR TAXATION OR FOR YOUR BUCK IS COMING. AND IT'S, AND IT KIND OF IT, IT BUILDS UPON ITSELF BECAUSE IT KIND OF BRINGS MORE PEOPLE AND, AND HIGHER SALARIES AND HIGHER SALARIES EQUALS YOU KNOW, MORE EXPENSIVE TASTES AND, AND HOUSE TOPS.
AND THEN SO IT'S, IT'S, IT'S THE WHOLE DISCUSSION OF, OF YOU KNOW, THE ISSUES YOU, YOU LIKE TO HAVE UNTIL YOU HAVE THEM AND THEN IT'S, THEN IT'S NEW PROBLEMS. SO IT'S DEFINITELY GOING TO BE A FUN RIDE OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS,
[01:10:06]
ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. I SEE NO OTHER CONVERSATION OR INPUT. AND WITH NO OTHER ANY NEW BUSINESS OR ANY ANY DISCUSSION OR THINGS THAT WE'D LIKE TO BRING UP FOR NEXT, NEXT, NEXT MEETING. IF NOT REACH OUT TO MR. FELDMAN.WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS. THE KAFFIR. YEAH. THE HOPEFULLY FOR YOUR SEPTEMBER MEETING, WE'LL HAVE THE DISCUSSION OF THE A C F ON THERE, WHICH I THINK WILL COMPLETE THE CONCEPT OF SORT OF ROUNDING OUT THE, YOU KNOW, THE FINANCIAL PICTURE FOR THE, FOR THE CITY. YOU'LL SEE WHERE THE NUMBERS ARE ON THERE.
WE'LL GO THROUGH THROUGH THAT IN SOME DETAIL, ESPECIALLY THE NOTE SECTION.
SO AS SOON AS THAT COMES OUT, I WILL GET THAT TO YOU BY EMAIL.
AND WE'LL SCHEDULE THAT FOR THE SEPTEMBER MEETING.
IN THE EVENT UNLIKELY EVENT THAT IT'S NOT OUT, THEN THE CHAIR AND I WILL WORK ON A TOPIC.
MISS TRANDAHL GAVE US TWO TO, TO THINK ABOUT.
YOU ALSO HAVE ROAD MAINTENANCE THAT YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT FOR A FUTURE MEETING.
SO WE'LL WORK ON, ON THOSE. FANTASTIC. ALL RIGHT.
WELL, IF THERE'S NOTHING ELSE, I'LL CALL THIS.
MEETING ADJOURNED. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME. YOU NEED A MOTION? MOTION TO ADJOURN. SO MOTION TO ADJOURN. SECOND.
ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. WHO MADE IT? MOTION.
I MADE THE MOTION. YEAH. YEAH. MEETING ADJOURNED.
THANK YOU ALL.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.